Is PoE2 even PoE?

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Tekken 3 was released in 1997 and had a dodge roll mechanic. I guess Legend of Zelda and Dark Souls are Tekken-likes... 🤦‍♂️

Ah, of course 🤦‍♂️ Someone always came up with an idea first, but I guess that automatically means everyone else is just copying, right? And since so many mechanics come straight from real life, most games end up feeling like cheap reality-like copies trying and failing to be real without the physics, consequences, or graphics that actually make real life… real. But hey, maybe we’re all just trying to be like Nintendo now, claiming ownership over things people have been doing long before gaming even existed. Truly groundbreaking stuff.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

Every thing changed, drastically.

The movement.
The combat.
The classes.
The items.
The skill gem system.
Charms?
...

So many things drastically changed.

Maybe it's just me, but it feels off to me. I love PoE so dearly, just to see PoE2 came out and it feels, looks, plays nothing like PoE.

Wanna hear something truly mindblowing? If GGG were to re-release PoE 1 version 1.0 tomorrow, it would be FAR MORE similar to PoE 2 than to modern PoE 1.

I don't know when you started playing Path of Exile, but PoE 1 of today is entirely different from what PoE 1 was 4 years ago, which was itself entirely different than what PoE 1 was 7 years ago, which was itself entirely different from OG 1.0 PoE 1.

In basically every category you list above.




PoE 1 Itemization? WILDLY different throughout the years, hundreds more mods nowadays, crafting methods that never existed before 3.0, more uniques, balances uniques, more bases, fractured/synth/implicits/etc.

PoE 1 Skills? Totally different than where they started. Multiple rounds of new or removed supports, alt quality, transfigured, etc., power and performance balance

PoE 1 passive tree? Didn't have masteries. Didn't have clusters. Had fewer keystones. Had wildly different layout and numerical values. No spell suppression. Etc. Jewels didn't exist until 2015. Clusters 2020.

PoE 1 classes? Every single ascendancy has gone through multiple MASSIVE overhauls throughout the years.

PoE 1 speed and gameplay? It was INCREDIBLY slow in the early years, unless you abused some very specific "bugged" interactions (such as shotgunning projectiles). Mud Flats was absolute HELL for years. No immunities. MULTIPLE main skills were pretty regular in builds. Shaper fight took legit planning and positioning because there was less full screen coverage of skills, AND you were LUCKY if you broke a million damage so the fight took a while. And that was SHAPER which was 2016, a full 3 years after the release of the game.




***What's my point? PoE 2 is NOT different from PoE 1 nearly as much as folks who are "newer" to PoE 1 believe. Rather, it is more of a "return to form" that PoE lovers who have been around since the beginning recognize all too well. But it also means that its highly predictable that PoE 2 will.....eventually......regress to modern PoE. Because it already did once before.

^adding one more thing: regarding new "systems" in PoE 2....there are NO new systems in PoE2. Zero. None. They are ALL derivatives of base systems in PoE 1, just in a slightly different format.

If you approach it that way, you notice all the similarities and realize that nothing is truly "different". It's simply some new clicks and layouts to get used to.

The skill system is 100% the same, just no coloring and no waiting for vendors to get specific skills and supports. The leveling system is garbage but incredibly straightforward.

Crafting is just as "new" as any new crafting method is in PoE 1. Takes you about a minute to figure out the basics, and years to figure out the optimizations.

Gearing is 100% the same, with more emphasis on defenses than softcore current PoE1. But exactly the same systems and ways to "build".


and so on.



It's not the differences in systems that you are likely having a problem with, because they aren't different and those are truly EASY adjustments to make: I wholeheartedly believe its that you want the game to feel the same when you are fighting monsters and that is explicitly what it did NOT want to be, because PoE 1 has been irreparably damaged by 12 years of power creep and out of control balance issues. Give it some time, it'll get there.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

^adding one more thing: regarding new "systems" in PoE 2....there are NO new systems in PoE2. Zero. None. They are ALL derivatives of base systems in PoE 1, just in a slightly different format.

If you approach it that way, you notice all the similarities and realize that nothing is truly "different". It's simply some new clicks and layouts to get used to.

The skill system is 100% the same, just no coloring and no waiting for vendors to get specific skills and supports. The leveling system is garbage but incredibly straightforward.

Crafting is just as "new" as any new crafting method is in PoE 1. Takes you about a minute to figure out the basics, and years to figure out the optimizations.

Gearing is 100% the same, with more emphasis on defenses than softcore current PoE1. But exactly the same systems and ways to "build".


and so on.



It's not the differences in systems that you are likely having a problem with, because they aren't different and those are truly EASY adjustments to make: I wholeheartedly believe its that you want the game to feel the same when you are fighting monsters and that is explicitly what it did NOT want to be, because PoE 1 has been irreparably damaged by 12 years of power creep and out of control balance issues. Give it some time, it'll get there.

Then why Dodgeroll?

if something as minor as a "dodgeroll" existing the dealbreaker and impetus for this entire thread....I don't know what to tell you.

Don't use it?


Plenty of PoE 1 players DONT use movement skills.



The dodgeroll and the movements baked into skills is a (pretty darn successful) "fix" for one of the main issues that has plagued PoE 1 design since 2013, or even earlier. Had they been able to implement it into PoE 1 YEARS ago, they absolutely would have and regularly talked about it. But because of the infrastructure, movement skills were the only imperfect way to somewhat alleviate that design flaw.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

if something as minor as a "dodgeroll" existing the dealbreaker and impetus for this entire thread....I don't know what to tell you.

Don't use it?


Plenty of PoE 1 players DONT use movement skills.



The dodgeroll and the movements baked into skills is a (pretty darn successful) "fix" for one of the main issues that has plagued PoE 1 design since 2013, or even earlier.

But the game is balanced around dodgeroll..? It expects me to dodgeroll to fight the act bosses?

It's mandatory.

And I do not like it.

Dodgelroll belongs to Souls game. Not PoE game.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The dodgeroll and the movements baked into skills is a (pretty darn successful) "fix" for one of the main issues that has plagued PoE 1 design since 2013, or even earlier. Had they been able to implement it into PoE 1 YEARS ago, they absolutely would have and regularly talked about it. But because of the infrastructure, movement skills were the only imperfect way to somewhat alleviate that design flaw.

You said bunch of nothing in this word-salad.

PoE didnt have dodgeroll yet still have one of most well-designed and difficult boss fight ever that is Uber Elder.

Try doing that with a non-tanky character and you can see the beauty in that fight, and what PoE could achieve if they put the same effort and talent into it.

Dodgeroll fixed nothing.

Here's my video of me doing Uber Elder on Toxic Rain Ranger, I had my butt clenched the entire fight, and I am always 1 hit away from death: https://youtu.be/fUdHFo6EBnI

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

But the game is balanced around dodgeroll..? It expects me to dodgeroll to fight the act bosses?

It's mandatory.

And I do not like it.

Dodgelroll belongs to Souls game. Not PoE game.

I mean.....it isn't first of all. You can learn the boss mechanics and pre-position or move without having to dodge roll. The game expects you to play more defensively overall. This isn't a dodgeroll thing. You aren't meant to just blindly attack non-stop without thought.

Also, as in past PoE 1.....this was ALSO mandatory behavior in PoE 1. Because of rampant power creep though, all forms of defensive play were rendered totally obsolete. This is a legitimate PROBLEM with modern PoE 1, not a feature.

And again....something so incredibly minor to the overall game makes the ENTIRE game not something you want to play?

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

But the game is balanced around dodgeroll..? It expects me to dodgeroll to fight the act bosses?

It's mandatory.

And I do not like it.

Dodgelroll belongs to Souls game. Not PoE game.

I mean.....it isn't first of all. You can learn the boss mechanics and pre-position or move without having to dodge roll. The game expects you to play more defensively overall. This isn't a dodgeroll thing. You aren't meant to just blindly attack non-stop without thought.

Also, as in past PoE 1.....this was ALSO mandatory behavior in PoE 1. Because of rampant power creep though, all forms of defensive play were rendered totally obsolete. This is a legitimate PROBLEM with modern PoE 1, not a feature.

And again....something so incredibly minor to the overall game makes the ENTIRE game not something you want to play?

So you're saying Dodgeroll is not mandatory.

Which makes it a redundant mechanic?

Your words.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

So you're saying Dodgeroll is not mandatory.

Which makes it a redundant mechanic?

Your words.

lol nice try with that bait.

Also.....regarding redundant mechanics: Welcome to PoE.

The entire game has always been about choosing your own adventure. You can EITHER choose to learn to use the dodge roll effectively, or ignore it and use a different playstyle. You can use any number of skills with "movement" to escape attacks. You can learn and pre-position. You can focus on heavy singular attacks that allow you to spend the majority of the fight simply moving around, waiting for the right time to unload...etc.

This isn't a new concept, not any different from PoE 1. PoE 1 you could glass cannon and focus on movement and positioning for defense, OR create a tank that invalidates all sorts of ground effects and 1hko mechanics so you don't have to dodge. Or mix the two and only dodge or learn the attacks you have to for your build. And then there's the quirks and differences between the movement skills themselves demanding different playstyles.

You are putting so much unnecessary and frankly undeserving "importance" on the dodgeroll simply existing.