Zoom is not fun. It's loot FOMO

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

Yeah, you can cure the FOMO pretty fast: install a loot filter.

"I havent read the post at all but still wanted to drop a random comment"

xD

Do you even understand what FOMO means?

It literally means Fear Of Missing Out - as in, you’re afraid you’re missing something by not picking it up/doing it.

So yeah: when you zoom, you are "missing out" on stuff left behind. A loot filter helps with exactly that, because it tells you what’s worth caring about and what’s just sparkly landfill.

If what you actually mean is "the meta rewards clear-speed so hard it pressures people into zoom builds", cool - that’s a real point. But that isn’t FOMO, it’s incentive structure / efficiency pressure.

So, if it’s not about missing drops: stop using FOMO.

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

Yeah, you can cure the FOMO pretty fast: install a loot filter.

I know, I know - "but what if that random white item I ignored was secretly the chosen one?" It wasn't. Endgame doesn’t care about your emotional support garbage. If it’s not currency, an upgrade, or something you can actually use, it’s just desktop clutter with extra steps.

If you want something easy that still lets you tweak things, check out FilterBlade. It’s solid: comes with pre-made "levels," and you can adjust it however deep you want. Start with a preset, then tune it as you learn what matters.

Same vibe as build guides: presets are great when you’re new, and later you eventually become the person who says "I make my own" unironically.

??? Loot sorting has nothing to do with this topic.

This thread is about FOMO shifting the game-play meta way too heavily towards 1 button waveclear builds and how that is potentially pushing players to play the game differently than what they would most enjoy and lean towards naturally.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

Do you even understand what FOMO means?
It literally means Fear Of Missing Out - as in, you’re afraid you’re missing something by not picking it up/doing it.

So yeah: when you zoom, you are "missing out" on stuff left behind. A loot filter helps with exactly that, because it tells you what’s worth caring about and what’s just sparkly landfill.

That's what's known as an equivocation.
Yes, it's true that you are "missing out" on things that you made a conscious decision ahead of time to not show on the ground, and not pick up. But that's not the kind of "missing out" we're referring to. We're referring to the loot which you do want to see, and do want to pick up, being missed out on.

Edit:
Upon reading you again, I misinterpreted what you said. I think you mean that, you are afraid to miss important loot because of loot clutter, and therefore the use of a loot filter is a form of "FOMO" in the sense that you will fear missing loot due to the screen being cluttered with useless items? If that's so, then sure. You could say there are "fragments" of FOMO in that. But I think people mainly use loot filters for quality of life, and to streamline the process. Also not sure why this point is being made.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

If what you actually mean is "the meta rewards clear-speed so hard it pressures people into zoom builds", cool - that’s a real point. But that isn’t FOMO, it’s incentive structure / efficiency pressure.

So, if it’s not about missing drops: stop using FOMO.

That's right. We're talking about how the incentive structure drives the play style meta. What we're describing as "FOMO" is, (here we go now) the fear of missing out on the loot that you won't get as a result of not playing a meta fast-clear build/play style.

The usage of FOMO works fine here. I don't see the point in arguing over the semantics.

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

Nice in theory, but if it were true, you would expect to see that happen naturally. Yet clear-speed builds still dominate the meta because that 'organic balancing' does not happen. So I'm afraid there would have to be some explicit & intentional currency balancing between the play styles.

This is why I don't think trying to cater to the style existing in PoE1 is worth compromising PoE2 for.

1) "to remove limitations" means to add insane consepts (which are already abandoned thankfully) like flask which can only be refilled in town, "combo" wow style abilities with spenders and 3 minutes cooldown bursts, and complete absence of meaningful loot and juicing? those things are harmful for power fantasy ARPG genre.

2) Tile loot strategies are absolute meta in 2 of 3 last leagues of poe1, same was in 0.1 poe2. In 3.27 top farms in terms of div/h and what people usually do is "more scarabs/more maps" and stacked deck farm with minimum chance of luckydrops where ppl just sell stuff in bulk. you can check any stream of big community contentmakers like fugbun/empyrean etc. yesterday empyrean farmed stacked decks tile loot strat for the whole stream. Juicing maps and hunting mirrors is not effective after nerf fiesta, thats why the game is so boring.

Titanics are massive loot pinatas even after 50% global loot nerf, if you farm titanic blight with invigoration now you always get like 2-4 t0 scarabs, divines and fountain of uniques per map, thus this content is extremely hard and require strong build. And its not about AOE clear, its about dealing with singular strong mobs.

In 0.1 we had trial of chaos with tile loot, sekhema with tile loot, simulacrum with tile loot, breach/ritual boss for tile loot...

i mean you are literally saying that if we cut down all the aoe, so all the people gonna be happy playing thorns warrior with 1 handed mace and take down white packs of monsters 1 by 1 without any aoe? no, people gonna outrage, leave and make "mostly negative" in steam and they gonna be absolutely right. its game about freedom of choice and fun, you cant force people do something you want just because

also tile loot strategies mostly give consumables which are highly needed for the whole league
1) crafting materials: beasts, fractured bases/fracture orbs, essences, 30% quality bases, etc etc etc. oils which allow certain builds to work (prismatic oil) so they are in extreme need
2) juicing reagents: scarabs, maps, safehouse farm. in current balance patch the situation is absurd as scarabs give too small juice for being t0/expensive. we need huge endgame buffs even in poe1 and bring back Affliction times.
3) gamba elements tile loot farms: stacked decks, inscribed ulti, random stuff like stranglegrasp from blight ravaged.
4) any boss farm is basically tile loot strategy too

If you say that "tile loot is cheap and badly balanced theres no point in farming it" you are not familiar with the game. simply: its much more effective to farm beasts/fractures (ofc in adequate league, not in 3.27 with messed progression and 5c 6-link armour day1 and t1 fract suppress is 20c) than farming currency

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

Nice in theory, but if it were true, you would expect to see that happen naturally. Yet clear-speed builds still dominate the meta because that 'organic balancing' does not happen. So I'm afraid there would have to be some explicit & intentional currency balancing between the play styles.

This is why I don't think trying to cater to the style existing in PoE1 is worth compromising PoE2 for.

Its like you want "balance the play styles" by deleting popular playstyle by either deleting clearing capabilities of skills or deleting loot from aoe clearing completely? so "freedom of choice for the ones who do not want freedom of choice"? now there is complete freedom of choice, and people who play whatever they want and find fun. there's youtuber from poe2 who only play thorns on every spec. does he not have fun?

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

i mean you are literally saying that if we cut down all the aoe, so all the people gonna be happy playing thorns warrior with 1 handed mace and take down white packs of monsters 1 by 1 without any aoe?

yeah.. I'm not saying that lol xD
I have ideas about how to handle large AoE skills/projectiles that might clutter the screen, without removing them and making them even more cool, but we never discussed it.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

Nice in theory, but if it were true, you would expect to see that happen naturally. Yet clear-speed builds still dominate the meta because that 'organic balancing' does not happen. So I'm afraid there would have to be some explicit & intentional currency balancing between the play styles.

This is why I don't think trying to cater to the style existing in PoE1 is worth compromising PoE2 for.

Its like you want "balance the play styles" by deleting popular playstyle by either deleting clearing capabilities of skills or deleting loot from aoe clearing completely? so "freedom of choice for the ones who do not want freedom of choice"? now there is complete freedom of choice, and people who play whatever they want and find fun. there's youtuber from poe2 who only play thorns on every spec. does he not have fun?

There isn't actually freedom of choice the way you're conveying it right now. But yeah, balance the game to not allow some play styles which are bad for the game. I know you disagree, it's okay.

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

There isn't actually freedom of choice the way you're conveying it right now. But yeah, balance the game to not allow some play styles which are bad for the game. I know you disagree, it's okay.

why are they bad for the game?
because people dont want to turn poe into no rest for the wicked? retention rate DROPS when leagues are dull nerf fiesta and people cant have fun. and leagues full of loot and NEW CONTENT keep more people logging in daily.
moreover, the faster the game became, the further playerbase grew. compare ancient leagues like OG breach/perandus and delirium and scourge which introduced extreme giga endgame? game became more interesting and engaging. taking all that away to "fix" some abstract balance issues is bad.
again, i already mentioned that a lot of people only leaguestart on optimal build and farm currency to reroll into the build they actually want to play. it's common for every arpg and even some mmos.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

There isn't actually freedom of choice the way you're conveying it right now. But yeah, balance the game to not allow some play styles which are bad for the game. I know you disagree, it's okay.

why are they bad for the game?
because people dont want to turn poe into no rest for the wicked? retention rate DROPS when leagues are dull nerf fiesta and people cant have fun. and leagues full of loot and NEW CONTENT keep more people logging in daily.
moreover, the faster the game became, the further playerbase grew. compare ancient leagues like OG breach/perandus and delirium and scourge which introduced extreme giga endgame? game became more interesting and engaging. taking all that away to "fix" some abstract balance issues is bad.
again, i already mentioned that a lot of people only leaguestart on optimal build and farm currency to reroll into the build they actually want to play. it's common for every arpg and even some mmos.

We've already been over most of this.
I'd like to hear you argue your position from a gameplay perspective. Describe to us how we're wrong about 1-click screen-clear being boring, and why a well implemented methodical combat system would be worse. From a user experience perspective.

Your references to player numbers to support your case has holes all over the place.

Your appeal to the high usage of meta builds has been thoroughly debunked several times.

We're not convinced.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

moreover, the faster the game became, the further playerbase grew. compare ancient leagues like OG breach/perandus and delirium and scourge which introduced extreme giga endgame?

The game gained recognition and grew a following over time. You don't seem to understand how that correlation doesn't necessarily mean it was caused by the gradual power creep of the game. PoE2 was advertised before release as a new approach with engaging combat, and that game exploded in popularity, shattering PoE1's player record, and maintains that status every content update so far. So who cares.

You're not really making a good case here.