"auto attack" warrior is the most dps skill

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geenius3ab#0190 wrote:

Lol at the people defending the basic attack.. Basic attacks definitely shouldn't be the strongest attack (especially during Act 1) for melee characters, it is honestly bad design. No you don't need it to be flashy, but it is supposed to be the "Oh I am out of resources, so I will need to use it" alternative, not the most OPTIMAL dps method. And yes, as a new player it is important that you feel GOOD when using skills, not get disappointed at each skill you try out because they are all weaker than the basic attack.
By this I mean that AT LEAST EARLY the melee skills should get a buff, because everyone knows that ranged characters and casters deal LOTS of dmg from afar with their skills, while there's no equivalent for melee characters, and in general you deal LESS damage then the people WHO ARE RANGED. Melee characters are dependent on their weapons to deal dmg in this game - if you are unlucky and get bad melee weapons, you are sh*t out of luck. If you don't get a good caster item (which is really difficult because you can literally use any wand or staff with spell dmg % early) you will still out damage the melee characters early game.

Late-game, you will have gear, skills and lots of options so the basic attack still being a valid option isn't bad, just that the other base melee skills suck too much and their base dmg would be best to increase at least for the initial levels.

If they make it 2 times weaker and add "Skill" Super-Attack which is the same as current basic attack, would it make you feel better?

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anufis#4211 wrote:

If they make it 2 times weaker and add "Skill" Super-Attack which is the same as current basic attack, would it make you feel better?

Since it's GGG, they're more likely to just nerf the basic attack without buffing anything else and consider the issue solved.

the warrior/mace/armor fantasy is absolute dogwater, GGG is incapable of grasping what makes melee good and fun, whoever says basic attack should be highest DPS must have blackmold covering 50%+ of their walls and you should avoid playing the archetype until GGG fix the situation (aka never apparently). Monk is the closest thing from melee being fun

Its not necessarily the bigger issue. The bigger issue is that whoever designed the skills of warrior has to be a big fan of world of warcraft. Warrior requires rotations akin to playing world of warcraft to maximize damage. IF you use these interactions with your rotations it can be quite powerful.

But at the end of the day who wants to solve a rubix cube to attack. So people just use basic attack and its better than spamming any other skill.

Cept for the problem is our "powerful rotation" takes 5 seconds of setting up in a game where over 20 mobs that can chunk you in 2 seconds so you suddenly have to stop halfway of a big attack to roll/defend and completely cancel out the combo. People use basic attack cause its the most boring but more important most consistent tool in their kit.

There's no animation combo built into the weapon to support a decent cadence of action, every mace attack not only takes seconds to come out but the windup and endlag is psychotic
And theres no survivability tool worth a damn that lets you tank out through one windup of your combo.

Meanwhile ranged/faster classes have both quicker combos to setup and the distance between them so the player has the chance to finish said combo or dodge out of danger

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Joxalot#2482 wrote:

Cept for the problem is our "powerful rotation" takes 5 seconds of setting up in a game where over 20 mobs that can chunk you in 2 seconds so you suddenly have to stop halfway of a big attack to roll/defend and completely cancel out the combo. People use basic attack cause its the most boring but more important most consistent tool in their kit.

There's no animation combo built into the weapon to support a decent cadence of action, every mace attack not only takes seconds to come out but the windup and endlag is psychotic
And theres no survivability tool worth a damn that lets you tank out through one windup of your combo.

Meanwhile ranged/faster classes have both quicker combos to setup and the distance between them so the player has the chance to finish said combo or dodge out of danger

Yep, in world of warcraft you have a tank tanking the hits, a healer healing you. Then you can stay out of fire and use your abilities while moving.

They forgot those steps.

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absolutexdespair#8846 wrote:

As a result, we have only one development option, in short, the highest dps auto attack completely reflects what is happening with this game at the moment: you are completely planted on the rails of meta, you have no right to experiment with the game world, I would like to write that the game punishes you for this, but there is nothing behind the screen of "RPG game", there are no deep mechanics that require understanding, there is only an absolute lack of understanding in game on the part of the developers. They call it RPG but 50% of players play through archer, they haven't fixed it after almost half a year, you know how funny it is, dude. I look at dps auto attacks again and it makes me laugh.
I use translator, sorry if it's hard to read.

Sorry for the late reply, been playing. And no problem about the translator. I think I understood some of your points, but your entire post seemed to be unrelated to the subject of auto-attack, and I'm not going to branch out into my responses for each thing you brought up. I am also not saying that the Warrior doesn't have limitations, or that other classes aren't superior to Warrior. So I'm mostly only going to respond to the part I quoted above. I disagree that there are "no deep mechanics" but would agree that there are improvements to be made as the game develops.

The only point I can work out that you made about Auto-attack is that it has the highest DPS. Yes, that is not in contention. The point I made originally is that there are many facets to an attack:
-Range
-AoE
-Ailments & debuffs
-Speed
-Integrated movement/mobility
-Synergies with other skills
-Charge generation
-Defensive elements
-(and yes) Damage.

If you only use auto-attack, you are in practice (likely) losing out on DPS by not mixing other skills in with it. This might not be the case for all bosses specifically, where you can just "click the attack button until they are dead". But if that's the case (and your defenses are good enough to face-tank all damage, and they have no ads/minions), then you can simply use any attack in the game and win the fight the same way; with a one-button attack. And in that case, I would say that is an issue with the boss design, and not with the concept of a high single target basic attack.

The basic/auto attack is there as a raw DPS alternative to all other skills, which offer different advantages from the list above, including more DPS in most situations with particular combinations.

I'm planning to make a new off-meta life/armour Warrior next in this league, so I will report back if my opinion has changed. =)

Anyway thanks for the long response, and I hope you understood my meaning.

I don't get ppl defending basic attack and even attacking ppl saying it's not RPG. Let me remind you that progression is the core pillar of ANY RPG. Using skills that cost mana/cooldowns and often require synergy to achieve the exact same dps as simply bonking with a hammer is just unnatural.

There is no progression, there is no variety, there is only bonk.

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Xenobius2501#1140 wrote:

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

If the basic attack did not have the highest DPS, then it would never be used. It's supposed to function as a basic, reliable, single target attack. Is the issue with the design that it doesn't light up with flashy colors for you while holding down the attack button? Because there's no difference from a player-control perspective to using a single-target skill gem. As Urza alluded to, DPS isn't everything; It's actually intelligent esthetic & game design to utilize a 'standard-looking' attack in certain instances instead of constantly making the screen blow up with the same AoE you use to clear trash mobs.

You claim there is a problem but haven't specified what it is. If you believe GGG doesn't know what an RPG is, maybe you can enlighten us all.

Yes, there's an issue with the design.
Basic attacks are just that - basic. Which means plain visually, boring mechanically, and overall not very fun to use. This is how melee classes worked back in 1997 (Diablo 1) because the devs didn't know any better back then and it's a bad, extremely outdated approach in 2025.

If smacking enemies with a basic attack over and over again is more effective than using most of the (supposedly) advanced skills it means that whoever designed those skills doesn't have any idea what they're doing.

Sorry for late response, been playing and haven't checked back.
Okay so as suspected, the issue you(and others) have with basic attack is that it is unfun, lacks any sort of 'flare', and feels like dated gameplay.

I can sympathize with that, but let me offer my opinion here.
Popularity aside, this is a subjective opinion about what is "cool", and while there are some instances in the game where basic attacks might be the 'optimal choice' for pure single-target DPS (debatable when mixing skills, or in sub-optimal situations for basic attack), I would call that an issue with boss design rather than the concept of basic attack itself.

So what I'm getting at here, is that I don't think we're forced to (or even that it's optimal) to use basic attack most of the time. And I think that it is a matter of perspective about whether it is "cooler" to utilize basic attacks in combat, or to 'always' just use your most flashy skill over, and over, and over. But I am going to start a new life/armour warrior (god help me) and pay special attention to how I incorporate basic attacks, then hopefully remember to report back. Cheers =)

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Sandcubicle#5745 wrote:

I don't get ppl defending basic attack and even attacking ppl saying it's not RPG. Let me remind you that progression is the core pillar of ANY RPG. Using skills that cost mana/cooldowns and often require synergy to achieve the exact same dps as simply bonking with a hammer is just unnatural.

There is no progression, there is no variety, there is only bonk.

I don't understand why people are so angry about it, so I guess we are engaging on equal terms. =)

I disagree that there is no progression. You can progress your weapon, the support gems, and your passives. The only difference with a skill gem, is that you level up the skill gem to increase its damage etc. Not a ton more complex "progression" with a skill gem.

But maybe you can describe your vision of what progression would look like, and how skill gems fit that imagining.