You and your minions deal no damage 10 out of every 10 seconds

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

It's not about being "afraid" of the mod. This was already covered earlier in the discussion.

Ok, you worry about this mod "have no counterplay" and you can't "build around it"? Though we have runegraft, tree passive, panteon...

Then pls tell me what counterplay i have to "cannot regenerate life,mana,es"? I already lose huge layer of my defence and can't recover it. Leech? Ok i can get life leech. Attack es leech is very very rare. Mana leech also limited to phys attacks, but what should i do if i have elemental attack? Replace one of my flask to mana, have some mechanic to generate charges, throw away one of my aura to increase mana pool. Don't you think it is too much? It's not "counterplay", it's like a new build.

What counterplay i have to "reduced Action Speed for use Skill" if i not a trickster/jugg?

Counterplay for one shot "volatile cores", if i am a summoner and i can't see those things? Pls, i want to know.

While with "deal no damage" it just slows me by 30%, and with above runegraft,panteon,tree passives... it even less.

I mean I think all of these are good points. Yes there's the runegraft which I was not aware of, but that's about the only easy thing to slap on to a build to help. Pantheon usually is tailored towards whatever a build's weakness is and passive tree is very stingy on points lategame. Am I going to spend 6 points to help counter a single mod and lose 10m dps or build for the other 90% of maps that I'll run.

But you bring up a lot of good points. For certain builds there is no counterplay to a lot of the nastier mods. My Mamba build got bricked by chance to avoid poison completely, which had no workaround. Those never feel good.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

Ok, you worry about this mod "have no counterplay" and you can't "build around it"? Though we have runegraft, tree passive, panteon...

Then pls tell me what counterplay i have to "cannot regenerate life,mana,es"? I already lose huge layer of my defence and can't recover it. Leech? Ok i can get life leech. Attack es leech is very very rare. Mana leech also limited to phys attacks, but what should i do if i have elemental attack? Replace one of my flask to mana, have some mechanic to generate charges, throw away one of my aura to increase mana pool. Don't you think it is too much? It's not "counterplay", it's like a new build.

What counterplay i have to "reduced Action Speed for use Skill" if i not a trickster/jugg?

Counterplay for one shot "volatile cores", if i am a summoner and i can't see those things? Pls, i want to know.

While with "deal no damage" it just slows me by 30%, and with above runegraft,panteon,tree passives... it even less.

Really don't want to rehash what has already been discussed but.....

There are punishments that act on the player's chosen build (reflect, regen, auras, curses, defenses, action speed, resistances, etc)
There are punishments that act on the terrain (burning/shocking/influence ground, volatile cores, drowning orbs, petrify)
There are punishments that buff monsters (extra damage, cannot be stunned, steal charges, etc)

These are all things that can and should be overcome. 100% counter-able. If you cannot do so, then you skip them. There is no problem in an extremely difficult mod that completely counters your particular build existing. It simply means you have a narrowly focused build, which likely performs extremely well in all situations except against its natural counter.

What sets THIS ONE MOD different from all the others is that it is designed to attack NO decision that you made as a player, it adds NO difficulty, and it has NO direct counter. It exists only as a way to punish our time. It is completely unique, and completely unnecessary. I would much rather have a punishment a la Scourge along the lines of "Every 10 seconds, take 5000 damage".


To answer your specific examples: to counter "cannot regen", you need only slap on a jewel with es on hit, mana steal. RF will need to skip it. Or you could remove some support gems so that your main skill costs no mana (this is a regular occurrence for altar farmers). To counter Volatile Cores: learn how to dodge and detonate them, this one is super easy to deal with. Pure skill issue. Reduced action speed counter: don't spam skills, simple as that. Use them only as needed. Doesn't slow you down nearly as much as you think. Never had an issue.
**You are not entitled to survive and do everything the game has to offer on ONE build without making any adjustments, that's an awful and impossible ask of the game. If this were true, there'd be no point in different builds at all**


Being able to survive isn't hard. This is not about comparable difficulty of this mod to other mods, or how tough a particular mod is for a particular build. The argument is far more basic than that: what does the mod do and why? What is the point? Every single other mod serves as a very specific difficulty increase in some way, some greater than others, except this one.

You cannot confuse this idea that "mods shouldn't have to be skipped" with "mods shouldn't exist". There absolutely SHOULD be mods that shut down specific mechanics, and might require a build to skip or plan for ahead of time. This is the most natural form of difficulty increase that the game can possibly incorporate. BUT mods that shouldn't exist in the first place is a far more narrow, yet far more basic prospect. As such, only one t17 mod fits into this category for the reasons above:: it isn't the hardest, but it makes the least sense for what it is meant to accomplish.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

Then pls tell me what counterplay i have to "cannot regenerate life,mana,es"? I already lose huge layer of my defence and can't recover it. Leech? Ok i can get life leech. Attack es leech is very very rare. Mana leech also limited to phys attacks, but what should i do if i have elemental attack? Replace one of my flask to mana, have some mechanic to generate charges, throw away one of my aura to increase mana pool. Don't you think it is too much? It's not "counterplay", it's like a new build.

Instant recovery, life and mana gain on hit, and instant leech, there are essentially several methods to circumvent the "cannot recover" modifier.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

What counterplay i have to "reduced Action Speed for use Skill" if i not a trickster/jugg?

For this league, equipping a mercenary with Garb of the Ephemeral is the optimal choice. The Balance of Terror jewel offers a way to prevent your action speed from dropping below its base value. You can also choose to play at a more measured pace without spamming skills aggressively, or simply reroll the mod if neither approach suits your playstyle. Once again, there are multiple strategies available to effectively counter this straightforward modifier.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

Counterplay for one shot "volatile cores", if i am a summoner and i can't see those things? Pls, i want to know.

Just... don’t get hit? Seriously, this is probably one of the easiest mods to deal with. No need for fancy tech, just avoid the stuff that’s easy to dodge. It’s that simple.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Instant recovery, life and mana gain on hit, and instant leech, there are essentially several methods to circumvent the "cannot recover" modifier.

General "2 Life on hit" on jewelry is almost unnoticeable, especially vs boss/few rares. There is "15 Life on hit" on Elder which has quite low chance to appear and i doubt that i can rely on it. About mana - "3 mana on hit" on Elder rings, do you really think it solves no mana regen problem? Even with 2x ring -manacost + inspiration support reduce i still have to pay 18 mana for every attack, not 3. No answer about recover ES. And how instant leech help if i can't get ES/Mana leech at all?

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For this league, equipping a mercenary with Garb of the Ephemeral is the optimal choice. The Balance of Terror jewel offers a way to prevent your action speed from dropping below its base value. You can also choose to play at a more measured pace without spamming skills aggressively, or simply reroll the mod if neither approach suits your playstyle.

I don't want to use mercs, i think it provide too much power. Balance of terror requires to cast Temporal chains every 10 sec and costs 55 div. About play less agressively or reroll - cool advice :thumbs up: I can give you same advice with mod "deal no damage within 3s"

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Just... don’t get hit? Seriously

Seriously? When i have 10 zombie, 4 spectre, 4 golem, 4 relic (holy+elemental), 4 purity heralds, big shiny sentinel of radiance and lots of mobs. "Just don't get hit" - wow. How i should see those volatile cores on my screen at first???

In other words, you have plenty of options but either refuse to use any of them or just take the easiest route by rerolling unwanted mods. This is a classic case of the player being at fault for their own decisions, not the game, just a straightforward skill issue.
But I guess it’s easier to blame the game for something that’s really just a you problem. Honestly, after your reply, especially to the ‘just don’t get hit’ part, there’s not much more to add other than skill issue.

I don't blame anyone, all i want to say - there are many more dangerous / annoying mods, than "deal no damage within 3s"

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

I can't think of any mods that are annoying for annoyance's sake. %phys as bonus elemental, reflect, etc. aren't mods you can do nothing about to mitigate or outright ignore.

However, with this specific mod, the game expects you to just sit there like an idiot for about 3 seconds before you can do something again. You can be unfathomably tanky, with max block and Svalinn, 100% spell suppression, 5k+ life, 80%+ phys damage reduction, the whole nine yards. Now you get to just sit there and enjoy that fact for a few seconds before you can continue clearing the map.

In the most simplest terms, the mod slows your map run down by 30%, more or less depending on whether you have runegraft of the warp and if you are affected by temporal chains. No other map mod exists to do just that.

Hrm. It does sound like a uniquely "irritating" mod, and the "counter-play" is not really very practical. But it still makes me think this is intended to be a "feel's bad mod" to add some "risk" to the gamble. It is a bit relative - I'd sooner run into this than, say, drowning orbs, which pretty much brick maps for my characters. Other folks (who are not running swarms of golems or necro pets) would think my complaint barely an inconvenience.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

I don't blame anyone, all i want to say - there are many more dangerous / annoying mods, than "deal no damage within 3s"

Dangerous, yes. Annoying? For my build I disagree. I can handle tentacle fiends because I can dash through them, grasping vines is annoying but a teleport instantly gets rid of them.

No damage for 3 seconds on the other hand. You just need to wait it out. Stops gameplay entirely for 3 seconds while you just run around with your pants around your legs. Not very fun.