You and your minions deal no damage 10 out of every 10 seconds

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yummysushipjs#7638 wrote:

You're adding nothing to the discussion.

I sure hope you misquoted the wrong person.....because the one you quoted is quite well known for posting extremely helpful and great posts about the game, while the other has only EVER posted non-feedback rage/hate posts about almost every mechanic besides being a glass cannon.

As for this whole "risk scarab" discussion: I wholeheartedly agree that there IS counterplay to this particular mod, and I also agree that if you are using risk scarabs and end up with it.....that is YOUR fault for choosing the risk. You deserve the actual increase in difficulty.

The counterplay to this mod is to be tanky outside of leech. That's it. And that's actually quite an important defense to have in general, this mod just happens to highlight it.

BUT (and yes I know I'm heavily contradicting what I wrote)

This mod doesn't exist to do what I wrote above. It's sole purpose is designed to slow you down, with (essentially) no way to fight back. There should be no mod in existence that doesn't have a DIRECT 100% counter. Reflect has "cannot take reflected damage". Curses have "100% reduced effect of curses". Petrify has "Cannot be slowed below base speed" and other mods. Damage mods all have multiple layers of defense to nullify it to negligible amounts. Etc. Basically....every mod has a near-perfect counter it EXCEPT for this ONE mod in the mod pool. That is wrong.

We musn't confuse "punishing/hard" with "indefensible": there are plenty of t17 mods that are WAY harder to deal with than simply not dealing damage. Especially for specific builds. BUT the lack of any meaningful counter or control for EVERYONE is just an indicator of bad design.

So don't run it?

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Celestriad#0304 wrote:

If your build can't handle a lot of unwanted mods you don't play with Risk. Or play a better build that can. Plain and simple.

I can and do complete maps that have this mod. It's not that builds "can't run it" it's that it's a very bad experience to run it.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

So don't run it?

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Celestriad#0304 wrote:

Chaos Orb has entered the chat. Risk? Tough luck, deal with it.

I could've been clearer with my original message. I'm not getting this mod from map rolls, it's all risk scarab. And yes, while I can still complete the map that's not the point.

The point that many of you are missing is that this modifier is not fun to play and seemingly slows things down for no reason... Like phylacteral link, necrovigil, and old volatile flameblood, each of which have been removed from the mod pool.

Some mods are intentionally unpleasant. A game designer's job is creating things that feel both good and feel bad. To gain the thrill of conquering adversity, there has to be the potential for loss and negative consequences.

Getting just the right amount of "suck" is a balancing act that separates good games from bad ones. I feel the devs here do a pretty good job of getting the recipe right.

One of the best things about PoE is you ability to "build around" the pain, which turns this "pain" into fun. Take the mods that add curses or prevent leech, as an example. If your build can ignore curses or doesn't leech those little bits of "pain" become bonuses.

These risk scarabs seem to be balanced around causing some serious pain in an unlucky circumstance. I imagine this is intentional.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth#2793 wrote:

One of the best things about PoE is you ability to "build around" the pain, which turns this "pain" into fun. Take the mods that add curses or prevent leech, as an example. If your build can ignore curses or doesn't leech those little bits of "pain" become bonuses.

But this is exactly the point right here: with MOST of the mods this is true. With this particular mod....it isn't. You can't "build around it", and it never becomes "fun" to just sit there dealing no damage. You can absolutely survive the mod, that isn't the question. But a mod that ONLY exists to waste your time, with no counterplay, shouldn't exist.

The whole risk scarab side of this conversation is a bit irrelevant: the only thing worth analyzing is the mod itself. Does it fill those purposes you outlined? When does it become fun to arbitrarily lose 30% of your time doing absolutely nothing?

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

But this is exactly the point right here: with MOST of the mods this is true. With this particular mod....it isn't. You can't "build around it", and it never becomes "fun" to just sit there dealing no damage. You can absolutely survive the mod, that isn't the question. But a mod that ONLY exists to waste your time, with no counterplay, shouldn't exist.

The whole risk scarab side of this conversation is a bit irrelevant: the only thing worth analyzing is the mod itself. Does it fill those purposes you outlined? When does it become fun to arbitrarily lose 30% of your time doing absolutely nothing?

I suspect the mod is supposed to be unpleasant. Hence "the risk" part of things. Perhaps not as detrimental as a vaal orb's ability to completely brick things, but the "risk" (pun intended) is always there is getting this really painful attribute.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth#2793 wrote:

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

But this is exactly the point right here: with MOST of the mods this is true. With this particular mod....it isn't. You can't "build around it", and it never becomes "fun" to just sit there dealing no damage. You can absolutely survive the mod, that isn't the question. But a mod that ONLY exists to waste your time, with no counterplay, shouldn't exist.

The whole risk scarab side of this conversation is a bit irrelevant: the only thing worth analyzing is the mod itself. Does it fill those purposes you outlined? When does it become fun to arbitrarily lose 30% of your time doing absolutely nothing?

I suspect the mod is supposed to be unpleasant. Hence "the risk" part of things. Perhaps not as detrimental as a vaal orb's ability to completely brick things, but the "risk" (pun intended) is always there is getting this really painful attribute.

I can't think of any mods that are annoying for annoyance's sake. %phys as bonus elemental, reflect, etc. aren't mods you can do nothing about to mitigate or outright ignore.

However, with this specific mod, the game expects you to just sit there like an idiot for about 3 seconds before you can do something again. You can be unfathomably tanky, with max block and Svalinn, 100% spell suppression, 5k+ life, 80%+ phys damage reduction, the whole nine yards. Now you get to just sit there and enjoy that fact for a few seconds before you can continue clearing the map.

In the most simplest terms, the mod slows your map run down by 30%, more or less depending on whether you have runegraft of the warp and if you are affected by temporal chains. No other map mod exists to do just that.

I don't know why people so afraid of this, where there are far more dangerous mods exists. Even banal "cannot regenerate life,mana,es" i can't run at all, because i will simply have no mana.

"consecrated ground" - very annoying without enemy regen mitigation, to the point that you can't kill some mobs (soul eater, boss, high res).
"volatile cores" - one shot thing.
"55 phys/elem res" - can increase mob ehp more than twice => +100% time need to complete.
"+50% Block Attack" - another annoying thing, no access to Attack mastery? good luck to run this mod.
"3% reduced Action Speed for each use Skill" - slows you way more than author's mod.

While as man above said, "deal no damage" is just slow me by 30%.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

I don't know why people so afraid of this, where there are far more dangerous mods exists.

It's not about being "afraid" of the mod. This was already covered earlier in the discussion.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

It's not about being "afraid" of the mod. This was already covered earlier in the discussion.

Ok, you worry about this mod "have no counterplay" and you can't "build around it"? Though we have runegraft, tree passive, panteon...

Then pls tell me what counterplay i have to "cannot regenerate life,mana,es"? I already lose huge layer of my defence and can't recover it. Leech? Ok i can get life leech. Attack es leech is very very rare. Mana leech also limited to phys attacks, but what should i do if i have elemental attack? Replace one of my flask to mana, have some mechanic to generate charges, throw away one of my aura to increase mana pool. Don't you think it is too much? It's not "counterplay", it's like a new build.

What counterplay i have to "reduced Action Speed for use Skill" if i not a trickster/jugg?

Counterplay for one shot "volatile cores", if i am a summoner and i can't see those things? Pls, i want to know.

While with "deal no damage" it just slows me by 30%, and with above runegraft,panteon,tree passives... it even less.