Orb of Scoured Chance

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The alch/scour that felix was talking about is likely for rolling maps...

Nope, i use it for cluster jewels, it take a lot of rerols to get good one.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

Nope, i use it for cluster jewels, it take a lot of rerols to get good one.

Genuinely curious.....why? You are much better suited, and likely cheaper and easier, to alt-spam clusters. Alch/Scour is super inefficient and far less likely for clusters.

Probably even better overall to fracture-craft them over alch/scouring....

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Genuinely curious.....why? You are much better suited, and likely cheaper and easier, to alt-spam clusters. Alch/Scour is super inefficient and far less likely for clusters.

Probably even better overall to fracture-craft them over alch/scouring....

alt spam gives you at max 2 good affixes, but i want 4 (or 3.5). Fracture orbs cost a lot, i can afford it, but why if i can buy 500 scour for 300c, alch is almost free and have 500 rolls. The only problem it quite tedious. Also you can't use essence. And fossil/harvest costs much more, while provide very little improvement in terms of chance.

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

alt spam gives you at max 2 good affixes, but i want 4 (or 3.5). Fracture orbs cost a lot, i can afford it, but why if i can buy 500 scour for 300c, alch is almost free and have 500 rolls. The only problem it quite tedious. Also you can't use essence. And fossil/harvest costs much more, while provide very little improvement in terms of chance.

no....alt spam gives you a GUARANTEED 2 good affixes. Not two max. Then you regal and exalt to 4. There is a subtle but important difference. Meanwhile, alching is 4 at random. Exponentially worse odds, leading to exponentially more attempts and cost. Not only that, but you are far more likely to get lots of in-between 3-mod jewels that you can just straight up sell for profit.

You say alch is almost free...i disagree with that assessment. Alchs and Scours at the rate you likely use them to do that are quite high in cost over time. By the time you actually "hit the lottery" on your 4-mod cluster, you have likely overpaid the cost of the fracture orb in pure currency value.

I agree, fossil/harvest costs more for the saved effort. But I don't think I've heard of many that would consider alch/scouring clusters because of just how low your odds are and how high the cost ends up being because of it. And at that point, why wouldn't you just chaos spam? That's basically what you are doing except its costing you overall more because of the scours.


I mean....am I wrong here?

you CAN hit an alt and get one affix. then augment for your second. It's nowhere near guaranteed 2. You can Augment into a shit affix, then 50/50 to annul it off and try again, only to kill the one you wanted and start over again. Put this on repeat 100's of times easily.

It's half the reason you can burn through 1000's of Alts quickly.


Alch spamming does indeed have a higher chance of hitting explicit you want, but at a higher cost, and more RNG to annual and fix those you don't want. Felix is not wrong in his assessment of chance, you are not wrong in your assessment of cost.

At 7-8 div cost for a fracture, no,.. you're not going to out pay that cost by the time you Alch scour a combination you feel worthy of a fracture chance. you're not rolling to hit all mods you'd be happy with if the frac hit any of them, you're looking for the mod you want, and 3 others, that's it.

Chaos spamming is "generally" twice the cost of Alch Scouring. Alch Scouring is "generally" twice the cost of Alt Spamming.


Now, one point I can agree, you can just alt spam until you hit the one affix you want to frac, Aug, regal, exalt slam, then frac. THIS would be the MOST cost effective way to run, but it sounds like Felix cares more about time, and not cost imo.

My entire point is that alch/scour IS the maximum time you can possibly take to craft clusters.

We are talking about saving time in this thread, and not only is alch/scouring the least cost-effective method; it is also the most time-consuming. Because for every single roll attempt, you need to alternate currencies. Alt-spam, you use one currency almost exclusively allowing you to maximize "clicks per second". As far as time is concerned, fracturing or harvest/fossil is the quickest method if time were the main concern.

I mean if you are rather "flexible" on those 4 mods that you want, then alch/scour may end up being more cost effective. But it is just such an inefficient way to do it.

Also....scour orbs are NEARLY 1:1 chaos this league. You really aren't saving a heck of a lot of currency going alch/scour over straight chaos spam. Add in the alchemy orbs and your costs are easily surpassing straight chaos, or at the very least damn near equal to it.

Well, I disagree, when it come to time to hit affix, you are going to hit it faster Alch scouring / chaos spamming.

Actually in all honestly, it's going to be about the same amount if time.

Who's to say Felix isn't' a accuracy champion, and can click between Alch / Item / Scour faster than you or I can even fathom?


As far as "most cost effective" Many a league there have been Alts sky rocket over in price that of Alterations. It just happens THIS league it's not the case b/c SO MANY people are trying to scour / chance dbl influence Magebloods that scours are ridiculous prices.

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JediWabbit#3091 wrote:

Well, I disagree, when it come to time to hit affix, you are going to hit it faster Alch scouring / chaos spamming.

Actually in all honestly, it's going to be about the same amount if time.

Who's to say Felix isn't' a accuracy champion, and can click between Alch / Item / Scour faster than you or I can even fathom?

"Time to hit affix" is a mathematical probability. He is talking about getting 3-4 desired affixes at once. This is a "right" or "wrong" mathematical problem here: it is NOT faster alch/chaos mathematically. Yes, its closer to even but then you factor in the clicks involved. It's not something we can be disagreeing on...its a mathematical conclusive percentage.

The point I made is that, when you can get two guaranteed preferred mods and craft from there you are far more likely to get an intermediary valuable cluster AS WELL. Alch or Chaos makes this exponentially less likely: you either win the lottery or you don't, there will rarely be an in between with full-randomness.

Its more valuable over time AND easier on your hands to alt-spam craft. Both in terms of overall cost of input, and expected output.

But yes, perhaps he is the multi-click master and this is moot.

Hang on a tick.. I did not see the part where he is going for four desired affixes. That is my mistake.

In that case yes, the best solution would be Alt spam, Aug, regal, Slam until desired. Even though the RNG would still fuckahell tedious, it would be the best route for multiple desired affixes before Fracture.

At the end of the day though crafting all comes down to "feeling" what's better in your opinion. If Felix feels he is more likely to hit Alch/scouring, who are we to tell him otherwise, it's his time and money. In regards to what's better timewise, its' RNG, he could hit 4 on the first try, take thousands the second. Even in that case because of RNG, it might still average out faster than Alt spamming etc.. There is no way to say one way or the other.

we can say however what is more likely, but lets be honest it's PoE. RNG barriers are broken all the time, at least for others... I get fucked by RNG all the time...

One Last Edit:

Many a times I've alch scoured items like cluster jewels, and personally in my experience I've hit 3 affixes a lot faster than trying to work from the bottom up Alt Spamming / Aug / Regal. Hell how many time have you alt spammed, fell in the zone, and rolled over what you were looking for that only hits like 1 in a thousand? More often than not personally if I want to fracture, I find my self grabbing the fracture orb a lot faster after Alch/scouring than I do alt spamming.


Getting back to the OP topic at hand, at least near it though it shifted from scour / chance:

No I don't believe an Alch / Scour all in one orb is needed. This is one of the very few instances I would not propose for ease of use / convince as this is a short cut I feel "feels" right as it is, and as you stated, Choas spamming is the option, which "essentially" IS Scour/Alch.

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JediWabbit#3091 wrote:

who are we to tell him otherwise, it's his time and money.

I mean....that's why I asked in the first place lol.

1) If the goal is time, there are faster ways
2) If the goal is price, there are cheaper ways

If he had said he likes doing it before we started going back and forth (which didn't happen yet), we wouldn't need to.

But he also commented on the fact that we need an alch/scour because thats how he crafts his clusters: hence, why I asked. There was a whole conversation on the first page that all of that was in response to.


As far as "who are we to tell him".....did you consider maybe he doesn't know its inefficient?

Since we are talking about a particular need for a new currency to serve a particular function, talking accurately about said function is necessary for the conversation. And people learn things all the time they might not have known.

Such as how, in this thread alone thanks to a response to my own post, I learned there's a new benchcraft. "Who are we to tell him" are other PoE players that might have novel or better insight. Doesn't mean he has to follow what we say! But we can all learn on these forums if open to it.