Unbalanced Gold Cost (Settlers), does GGG expect no lifers only??

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

Yes, you can do 100k per map, but it requires buying scarabs on at least 100c/map which scales to multiple divines depending on strat. You can buy gold service, 2kk gold for 10 div. But those numbers are pretty big. Personally i don't want such expenses. Also i don't use 500+ rarity merc, maybe that's my problem. Right now i using budget gold optimized strat, which gives me 30k per map, which is far lower than your "conservative" 100k per map.

Also if i say 3h, it means 3h spending on only running maps, but you also spend some time on trading and other things. So realistically it 4h+. But i am not a 24/7 gamer, and 4h is almost all time, that i can spend.

To sum it up: maybe some players are "swimming in gold", but for me it isn't true.

Not really, gold is absolutely accessible without massive investment or having to buy into it. Sure, you can scale it up with more currency to push returns further, but even at a basic level, the profits are solid. Ships alone already sustain budget farming setups while generating large amounts of currency along the way, for literally free.

Honestly, I don’t know what you’re doing if 4 hours of playtime leaves you struggling with gold. It's clear as day that your so called “budget methods” are either below budget, or just flat-out ineffective. Like I mentioned earlier, even a dirt-cheap gold farming setup can earn enough gold in a 4-hour session to keep you going for several days. So let’s be real here, the problem isn’t the gold cost. It’s you.

I'm gonna make this post short and sweet with just a couple points because honestly all of these points I've made before, yet it seems they are being lost.


@VoidWhisperer - I think you're missing the point we are not only talking about Kingsmarch, and sustaining gold for only running Kingsmarch. We are also talking about how the gold sink impacts crafting. Before you want to refute saying "it's not meant to run both", or "it's not catered to the top 1%", I would suggest you read my previous posts on the matter, its' been refuted. Maybe you don't run Kingsmarch AND craft at an above average level for profit, I don't know, but the points you've made ONLY refer to running Kingsmarch, and in that instance you ARE right. However in this instance, you fail to see the other half the debate. That couple mill gold you refer to after 3-4 hour mapping session farming gold? GONE in about 30 minutes supplying up for crafting. Kingsmarch is then then broke, and requires heavy investment to gold up for it and crafting. This is outside using trade to buy mapping materials for farm for more gold. It's really a vicious cycle. Yes you may say use the Old trade site, points refuted previously in post history, and not everyone uses TFT, which should not really be a point of contention.


@ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate - You're right, and no one wants infinite money for everyone, but again not the point and not what were asking. We are asking the Dev to do another pass over, and possibly Tune the system. Again points I've made previously, but I go into quick summary. It's not far fetched to believe a company like GGG who has but one consistency - Constantly releasing untuned content. I DARE anyone to challenge me on that statement. How hard is it to believe perhaps Faustus, at the higher levels, and the gold drop rate for individual players is not scaling the way it could/should? How hard is it to believe there is ZERO chance, NO POSSIBLE way the system can't be tuned/optimized?? AFAIK no one here is a game developer, and if if you were, you're certainly not a GGG game dev, so who has any authority to say what can and can not be done? Factually prove me wrong, and I'll concede.


@cowmoo - ,.. My archenemies, my opponent Gladiator in this eternal struggle.. LMAO

How you doin today buddy?

Look, you talk about how you don't feel adjusting the current system is conductive for the game, that it would just make it sooooo much easier to widen the gap between the top 1% and the rest of the "normal" player base.. Let me pose a question to you... And please think on this for a minute before you just shoot it down.

With your supporting arguments, isn't that exactly what your doing, and proposing? You're creating a new Top 1% in a very specific part of the game. Hell I just watched RedViles launch and return a 50mill shipment from kings march (NO WHERE NEAR WHAT I LAUNCH WITH ONE SHIP BTW, I run ONE ship and launch 12kCrn 12kWht 120kDst) and the man pulled in 7 mirror shards. That's pretty damn top level to me, and the thing is, I'm not even talking about being in THAT club. He paid over 60divines for of currency to buy all the dust needed (25mill). Seems like a pretty hefty, near Top 1% entry fee to me, that most players are not going to afford entering that ring.
All I wanna do is be able to run a paltry amount of my Kingsmarch while being able to enjoy other parts of the game at the same time, (A PoE 1 Sampler platter if you think about it). I'm asking nothing more than what GGG has in there own words on camera in interviews presented to us. Never once have we been told what we can and can not run at the same time. Now,.. Of course if you want to run EVERYTHING at the HIGHEST LEVEL Possible it's a given you are GONG TO HAVE TO PAY THE PRICE. This is where I think our disconnect came to be. I believe you assumed I want to craft mirror tier items, run Kings march maxed out 17 - 50mill shipments/day, Map and juice the highest level possible, ect, ect.. That's not what I'm asking, that's not even in the same ball park... Hell,.. It's not even the same sport.

All I'm saying, at least for my experience, it feels bad, and maybe, just maybe it "could" be better. Maybe it can't, Fuck I don't know, but that's for GGG to consume and digest the feedback, then decide.


...shit,.. I tried to make it short,.. I really did.

EDIT:

Sorry one point I want to address:

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

...And when its emotional and shallow from the very beginning, that's when misunderstandings, attacks, and tangents happen.


As an example: think about what details are entirely missing from the OP in this thread. He makes a broad claim that gold is balanced around "no-lifers". But how is HE interacting with Kingsmarch? Is he trying to run a full set of lvl 5 workers all the time, while ALSO recognizing that he is only bringing in 500k gold in 2 weeks of play? Has he even tried using less workers or lower levels at a time? Stopping the mapping workers? Sending smaller shipments, more frequently? All things that YOU can do based on YOUR gold income and still make profits? Or is he trying to match his Kingsmarch to someone else's Kingsmarch: someone else who may be playing 10 hours a day, doing a dedicated gold farm, or other things to fund it? There is a disconnect in knowledge.

This coin can also be flipped to the other direction. With a community of players with such overwhelming knowledge, why not ask for more clarification on the issue? Why not be more supportive and constructive instead of right of the rip demeaning, condescending, and presumptuous? We've all played this game for a long time, a lot of us are easily at some level emotionally invested. People come to the forums all the time and vent frustration. Maybe in that somewhat emotionally charged vent there is a rational based, and factual argument to be made.
With someone like for you, just for example, you're obviously invested heavily in time on these forums, you no doubt see time and time again folks come here with a statement of how they feel something is unbalanced in the game, yes maybe not worded perfectly. Because at the time, as you know, they literally just came out of the game after experiencing the issue for the 20th time, so their post is somewhat emotionally charged, and missing information. You as a veteran here should, I would assume, be so adept to see more information is needed, be able to ask the right questions, and dig the validity of the arguments almost instantly.
With our case in a previous thread this was not the experience, I was immediately scoffed at, judged as a 1% player, attempted to be discredited, and out right attacked for lack of better words. I was immediately put in a defensive posture. When all it took was a simple "hey, a lot of players don't see it that way, can you explain more why you feel this way, and how you go about trying to solve your problem right now, maybe we can offer better solutions". Then let them explain their position., and guess what,.. It may take multiple back and forth posts to get all the information need. Maybe actually READ their replies, instead of hammering the same repeated non-points back at them, even through it's be refuted, over and over..
Why should the immediate assumption be "the person is whining about nothing" and everyone attack. Case and point this very thread, you had one or two "fuck off" replies, the majority of the first half dozen replies were Helpful informative, and reasonably asking for clarification.
You want to be a recognizable presence on these forums, I know you do. I've seen you mention of bringing back Valued posters to the forum. Then be inspirational, show your value. I know you can do it, you already show you want to put the time in to be here.

I am just a passer by, I don't live here. I do however want to be able to come to a place with a welcoming Label Feedback, and give just that, my feedback. Maybe offer more details to the welcoming veterans who understand I may not be able to "word it perfectly" the first post.

All I'm saying is what's more likely,.. You're going to get a perfect post from a gamer in the feedback forum stating exactly that the problem is according to your parameters of what's acceptable reporting on the very first post?,.. or, Are you as a more senior community member, going to have to dig a little deeper, respectfully, at the issue and help validate?,.. if you choose to engage of course,.. And make no mistake of it, YOU are the one choosing to engage.

The point is the door swings both ways, and EVERYONE has the chance to be a bigger person, the question is, who is going to start?

^You are taking things much too personally, and continuing to ignore very real information because you continue to be stuck on the "personal" level. What YOU personally want to be able to do. That isn't where the problem lies. You have to try to look at the bigger picture.

The points aren't being lost, and they are being responded to by not just me. Across this thread and the other. I just happen to stay in the argument longer than most. And your responses to all of them are that we are "missing the point", while you continue to state the same examples of "extreme" usage that you should be able to do, presumably with minimal or even no additional time or focus required. I don't really think anyone is missing the point here.

The points:
1) Gold costs are too high for Faustus / Kingsmarch
2) Running Kingsmarch and Faustus should be easier, with less time and focus required to farm gold

It's not hard to digest those two points.

All of your descriptions of the problem, and the other descriptions of the problem in this thread (which are pretty much the same) have been refuted many times, by more than one person, using actual in-game statistics and know-how. But at each turn, personal feelings get in the way of understanding. And these disagreements and other presentations of reality are taken as personal attacks. You claim to have refuted the points made against your side of the argument, but you really haven't refuted any one of them. You keep stating the same thing: you want to be able to run Kingsmarch AND Faustus at levels beyond what is normal for EVERYONE ELSE (yep, that word again), without what you consider "wasting time", running maps for gold. And then beyond that, your argument is all semantic wordplay: complaining about what I "claim" is normal, and what others experience in their gameplay that directly contradicts your claims.

I can't refute at all that YOU personally feel like you don't have enough gold to do everything you want to do. I haven't ever even tried to do that. That is YOUR personal feeling. But when you extrapolate from that and claim there is a broader problem, you need BROADER data than just your own gut feelings. And that is where this entire argument breaks down. In two threads about this topic, we haven't gotten ANY of that. The majority of respondents on this argument continue to try to bring the bigger picture in to show the reality of the OVERALL situation, and we are being told we don't understand the fairly simple "problem" being discussed here.




To respond to another point: yes, if you are a dedicated kingsmarch farmer who puts in all the effort of a "1%-er" to run it at top speed 24/7, you deserve to yield "1%-er loot" from it. That's the entire point of maximizing a specific type of content farming. Getting to this point though SHOULD be difficult, SHOULD require work and time and effort and focus. The game is not meant to be completed in days. Or weeks. Or even months. The game doesn't just end after a temporary league: those that CAN achieve these numbers and goals within a temporary league deserve it but the game is not designed for "normal" people and players to reach the pinnacle level of any and all content.

This is why, whenever GGG makes a statement, you need to keep in mind that the AVERAGE, NORMAL player is not you. It just isn't. That is fact; not opinion, not an attack, not a judgment. Pure fact that you are not engaging with these things on a "normal" scale. Thus, you face certain challenges that the wider game environment simply doesn't experience within the same content. And that's on purpose.

The fact that this whole complaint is over mere HOURS of gameplay time, or even less with focus, is ridiculous in itself. And should tell you why this isn't a balance issue right there.

These long posts are tiresome.....I'm going to simply cut off any more engagement about imbalanced gold costs now. I've said pretty much the same thing at least 5 or 6 times now on the subject.

I said in a previous post, they might be imbalanced and receive tweaks, BUT the mentality and argument for such changes behind both this thread and the previous thread is wrong. Nor will the gold environment change in any drastic way.

If I'm proven wrong in a league or two.....I'll eat my words and you can absolutely hold me to that. But I am so unbelievably certain that any future gold cost changes will not change kingsmarch/faustus interactions in any meaningful way, and the same complaints being made here and previously...will continue to be made rather than simply accepted and overcame.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

^You are taking things much too personally, and continuing to ignore very real information because you continue to be stuck on the "personal" level.

Now you try and obfuscate the points once again by taking things to a personal level. Not only that, once again trying to dictate the situation through your opinion as if it were fact. I'm not taking things personal. The funny thing is, I've been pretty much laughing at you through the entirety of our exchanges. You just can't see it. The only thing I've done is point out that you personally attack people.
Secondly, it's pretty rich for the person who started the personal attacks off the RIP with their first response, to say "don't take things personally"...
Well, you should have never took it there.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

"...using actual in-game statistics and know-how."

Where,.. show me one tine one single actual GGG provided statistical fact.
The FACT is THIS Statement is a FLAT OUT LIE and can be proven by simply reading through our exchanges. It appears that you think because you believe it's true, therefore it must be fact. I'm sorry to inform you that is not how the world works.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The points:
1) Gold costs are too high for Faustus / Kingsmarch
2) Running Kingsmarch and Faustus should be easier, with less time and focus required to farm gold

No, you are not getting my points. And the point of that are these two points you just made right here. I never once said exactly what the problem is. I never once identified what the problem is. I don't know what the problem is. What I have said is it feels bad at this level.

The only thing that alluded to this was my title that said the gold cost is ridiculous in the previous thread. Since that thread, I have supported my argument through many many facts that I presented in various posts. So I'll concede my mistake for making a title with a little bit of emotion. Because i was pissed off at the time that I wrote the article, but since then eyes refused to open to the clear points that have been presented to them.


Once again, I'm going to say it very clearly, and maybe you'll read it this time. I am not trying to run all content at the highest level. I am trying to run a smaller level balanced between different contents. If I wanted to focus on Kings March and only Kings March, I would run that at the highest level there would be no debate what I have to do. I am trying to run King's March at a medium level while running other content at a medium level. EDIT: (To be clear, farming for gold at the highest level, In order to run various contents at a medium level.), This is not hard to grasp. The points we are missing is, you are maybe reading what I'm saying but then, translating it into something different. You are not processing the argument, that's the problem.

Others have chimed in in the previous thread and in this thread with the same feeling. More will follow, It only took one day after my thread for a brand new one by somebody else to come up..

Yes, like I said before, and you are now trying to flip the script and gaslight me with, every time you present opinionated nonfactual data, like I said before, I will refute it. I have made multiple factual points in many posts in both of these threads. You are more than welcome to go back and reread them if you feel I have not made actual points, because they are there, if I need to I will link them in the next post so you can reread them. You not once have put any kind of fact on this postings. It's all been opinionated normalizations based on, again, your opinion.

Let's not even begin to breach the topic of how you've been moving the goal posts through these discussions every chance you get. First, I opened with Ichors in my original post. Well, to you, Ichors didn't matter because "nobody picks those up", blah blah blah. Fine,.. I came back and updated my posted to include various other currencies including alterations. What did you do? "Nobody buys that many alterations", "They don't need to", yadda yadda yadda. Then the conversation moved toward crafting and how people craft. Every time your points have been refuted and it's been proven that they're not true and others have chimed in on it, you then move the goal post of the debate. A clear sign that this is a non-factual biased opinion being presented as fact. The funny thing is, I've allowed you to move the goal post, and every time you've moved it, I've refuted every opinionated non-fact you've presented that you think somehow is "statistically provided" and just "know-how," With actual examples and facts from in game play and verifiable references to why those opinions are wrong. And again, you've never provided one actual reference of fact.

The only one ignoring information put in front of them is you. I have read every single one of your posts, I have read every single one of the points you make, even to the extent of reading your post two or three times, making sure I digest what it is you're saying and properly understand what you're trying to convey before even beginning typing my response. I have responded to every exact point in suggestion, every opinion presented as fact,
and I have given you actual facts, with example about why they are false. A courtesy you have yet to extend to me.

Just to give you an example of how right you think you are, in the other thread about scouring/alch orbs, you quoted mathematical probability as being mathematically conclusive. You have no idea how badly I want to tear into that topic and show you just how, Self Contradicting, and defeating that statement is,.. Factually and theoretically completely inaccurate. But I have refrained myself, and let it slide.


I am done with this conversation with you. We are not going to see eye to eye because you keep translating what I say into what you want to hear.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

These long posts are tiresome.....I'm going to simply cut off any more engagement about imbalanced gold costs now. I've said pretty much the same thing at least 5 or 6 times now on the subject.

I said in a previous post, they might be imbalanced and receive tweaks, BUT the mentality and argument for such changes behind both this thread and the previous thread is wrong. Nor will the gold environment change in any drastic way.

If I'm proven wrong in a league or two.....I'll eat my words and you can absolutely hold me to that. But I am so unbelievably certain that any future gold cost changes will not change kingsmarch/faustus interactions in any meaningful way, and the same complaints being made here and previously...will continue to be made rather than simply accepted and overcame.

I am more than happy to agree to disagree. I believe I've already said this once or twice now in the various postings we've had back and forth, and we're obviously not getting anywhere. This Doesn't mean I will ignore if you respond to myself or others in these threads with nonfactual data.

Good day to you, Sir.