Remove Insta heal: no potion spam, no insta %hp on kill = less One-Shots [feedback]

Remove potion spam: potions should not be usable if there is already a life potion active.

%life on kill being instant recovery is currently OP and requires no investment. Remove it or make it work like recoup.

This will follow the principle of limited leech/recoup etc effects everywhere else, and maybe reduce the reliance on damage spikes (1-shots).

update:
Rework large DoT


update2:

the insta heal is a terrible bandaid to the main balance problem: damage spikes and terrible balance where the only thing that kills you is a 1-shot or some form of shotgun effect

If the insta healing would be removed they would need to do things right: damage scaling/proper defense layers. game will feel much better, it will also look cleaner because there wont be need for spam abilities to threaten the player. The devs might even give you a MS boost because the player speed will be self imposed

Allowing it to stay in the game is what they want because its easy for them, and nothing will change.

Just look at this game play and how long a char can stay close to mobs/rares/bosses, look how spam-free the boss fight is. And the flasks used have no instant effects:
https://youtu.be/jVRADmjzsss?si=_mzDUXqc4gHl1oCw


And even if someone doesn't agree with any of this, then we have a very basic issue here:

No.

"

AintCare#6513 wrote:

Remove potion spam: potions should not be usable if there is already a life potion active.
Addressing large DoT (DoT > Flask Recovery):

Spoiler

The recovery of potion should be indicated by a semi-opaque hp, and any DoT should be removing that instead of the actual HP, that way a player will have a way to deal with large DoT effects.

%life on kill being instant recovery is currently OP. Remove it and make it work like recoup.

This will follow the principle of limited leech/recoup etc effects everywhere else, and maybe reduce the reliance on damage spikes (1-shots).

Is it a quote from patch notes or a request??
Just asking because life flasks already do that.

Am I glad players aren't developers.

"

IILU81II#8410 wrote:

Is it a quote from patch notes or a request??
Just asking because life flasks already do that.

i see, i never realized because all my chars use insta flasks with 10-12 uses. i can remove that part then
i doesn't work like that. its actually much worse than that - OP updated.

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alonso_rettore#6977 wrote:

No.

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Coconutdoggy#1805 wrote:

Am I glad players aren't developers.

well the insta heals is why we ended up with damage spikes in poe1, but i guess if EVERYONE wants it in poe2 then there is no problem... right?


insta flasks and Cannibalism support require no investment what so ever. I wonder what % of HP users use at least one of those

The reason we ended up with damage spikes in poe1 was a combination of many factors none of which had anything to do with life flasks.

Life scaling is so laughable in poe2 atm that this is a complete non-issue.
Ditto for regen, leech and the utter lack of any defence layers.

%life on kill doesn't really equal immortality either, it simply provides some sustain during mapping and if it didn't + you nerfed the flasks in the way you suggested, then riddle me this genius: how the fuck are you gonna restore your life? Stop after every 2nd pack and wait? As if the game is not slow enough already.

nah not gonna fly, its required to play blood mage. i have like 1k hp and 38% armor and get 2 shoted.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

The reason we ended up with damage spikes in poe1 was a combination of many factors none of which had anything to do with life flasks.

Life scaling is so laughable in poe2 atm that this is a complete non-issue.
Ditto for regen, leech and the utter lack of any defence layers.

%life on kill doesn't really equal immortality either, it simply provides some sustain during mapping and if it didn't + you nerfed the flasks in the way you suggested, then riddle me this genius: how the fuck are you gonna restore your life? Stop after every 2nd pack and wait? As if the game is not slow enough already.

Poe1 damage spikes progressed uncontrollably due to your life pool being an effectively a boolean value. With current poe2 situation my HP doesn't drop below 95% for longer than 1sec all because during clear i can get insta heal from almost 0 hp to full in fraction of a sec, and i have 10-12cherges to spam away with if there is no/few mobs to kill.

the insta heal is a terrible bandaid to the main balance problem, which devs can sweep under a rug once again because they gave EVERYONE a no-investment solution. the only reason people want what i'm against itt is because of the damage spikes and terrible balance where the only thing that kills you is a 1-shot or some form of shotgun effect (something that ironically a lot of people complain about, i wonder where they all went).

If the insta healing would be removed they would need to do things right: damage scaling/proper defense layers. then you wouldn't have to wait between packs unless you took a massive hit, upon which you would need to back up- which is a very reasonable thing to do in any game. Allowing it to stay in the game is what they want because its easy for them, and nothing will change.

Just look at this game play and how long a char can stay close to mobs/rares/bosses, look how spam-free the boss fight is. And the flasks used have no instant effects:
https://youtu.be/jVRADmjzsss?si=_mzDUXqc4gHl1oCw
If we remove insta heal then tone down the damage spikes and burst the game will feel much better, it will also look cleaner because there wont be need for spam abilities to threaten the player. The devs might even give you a MS boost because the player speed will be self imposed (you will simply die if you start diving into damage sources without proper defenses).

And even if someone doesn't agree with any of this, then we have a very basic issue here: insta flask + %on kill is a requirement for HP builds, costs nothing. This is not a great look for a game 'choice' and at this point it should either be embedded in character sheet or treated as a requirement and be spread across many sources and have a considerable cost. any game 'choice' that is used by everyone is a symptom that should be looked into.

On the topic of poe1:

It is a huge game that used to get absolutely insane amount of content patched into it on a 3-monthly basis.
Most of the damage spikes are caused by a lack of balance (i.e. certain monsters not rechecked often enough/at all).
The reason it's progressed so far is power creep, both in terms of what a player can build and what monsters can get with modifiers overlapping out of wazoo.

I don't see a way for them to regain control, since as soon as anything gets nerfed people start rioting.
Life flasks in poe1 are used as bleed removal - that's it. % life on kill is inferior to every other recovery mechanic, be it regen, leech, life on block, or even life on hit on certain builds.

In terms of poe2:

Balance is a lot cleaner, although still work in progress. Monsters telegraph slams clearly, which also have actual wind up times now. You are expected to avoid this, not outheal it.

No investment instant life flask gives you 550 hp, with a ~3k life pool that's half your charges just to spam through one slam - hardly a viable 'strategy'.

% life on kill is a mapping sustain mechanic, which is highly situational and mostly useless against bosses (entirely against pinnacles).

Damage spikes can never be fully removed without trivializing the game. It'd force them to severely limit the amount of ways you can scale defences, not expand it, or you'd actually become immortal with minimal investment - something I thought you wanted to avoid.

The main problem with life based characters at the moment is that life pool is very hard to scale up, which pigeon holes builds into certain ascendancies and/or stacking strength.
It also leads to many newbies running around with 2k HP, since that is what you'll get with a decent life roll on most of your gear.
Compare that to how trivial it is to get triple that in ES or 5x that with some investment.

That is what needs to be fixed, not fucking life flasks.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

Balance is a lot cleaner, although still work in progress. Monsters telegraph slams clearly, which also have actual wind up times now. You are expected to avoid this, not outheal it.

and without insta heal you wouldn't avoid it? can you elaborate?

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arandan#3174 wrote:

No investment instant life flask gives you 550 hp, with a ~3k life pool that's half your charges just to spam through one slam - hardly a viable 'strategy'.

% life on kill is a mapping sustain mechanic, which is highly situational and mostly useless against bosses (entirely against pinnacles).

so both scenarios are covered with insta no investment heals

"

arandan#3174 wrote:

Damage spikes can never be fully removed without trivializing the game. It'd force them to severely limit the amount of ways you can scale defences, not expand it, or you'd actually become immortal with minimal investment - something I thought you wanted to avoid.

fully who said fully? right now that's the only way to kill a player

"

arandan#3174 wrote:

The main problem with life based characters at the moment is that life pool is very hard to scale up

so you just want your bool playerLife be hidden behind a bigger threshold value? talking about pushing things into immortal territory

again if you disagree with my proposition, the spoiler in the OP comments on the most basic problem with insta healing