Unpopular Opinion: League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

Yes it would and GGG will never do it, so pointless anyways.

Gonna be fair here and say that GGG essentially said they would never implement automated trade as per the trade manifesto, yet we now have the Currency Exchange. They said they weren't going to give loot allocation options in multiplayer, but they also caved on that years ago.

If enough people raise a huge stink about something, they will almost certainly implement it.

Yeah exactly. The game is made for trade first, full stop. It's made for trade only really, they have never done any SSF specific changes to my knowledge. SSF is explicitly made to be significantly harder. Sounds like everything is working exactly as intended.


I will agree that the "use all these rare new expensive orbs" was overall a bad challenge. However that seems pretty unrelated to your point. The problem is solved by having SSF as an option so that you can complete the challenges yourself if you want to pretend they have any meaning. Challenges are obstacles to overcome, earning currency to pay someone else to deal with it is a perfectly valid way of overcoming an obstacle. Tbh at long as I can remember challenge carriess were a thing. It was Profits they were added i think right? I'm pretty sure I remember people helping each other or selling carries back then.

You also have to consider the business motivation. Making challenges solo only would make them unobtainable for many people who may then decide not to play. Challenges are a specific reason a lot of people keep playing leagues. How many times do we see people quitting the league as soon as they do challenges? I'd wager that they're good for the game, driving continued engagement and almost definitely MTX sales. Making challenges be solo only wouldn't benefit the company or the game itself in any way that I can realistically see and might just end up excluding potential paying players. You also exclude all the couch co-op and small guild players that want to engage in the social aspect of overcoming challenges together. I see utterly no benefit to any aspect of the game from this suggestion. The only benefit seems to be your ego? Which can be stroked in SSF to your heart's content.


Let people enjoy their ZDPS and ZHP build, and just stay off social media if it triggers you this much.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

Let people enjoy their ZDPS and ZHP build, and just stay off social media if it triggers you this much.

Right, that's another good reason why league challenges should be allowed to be completed with teammates: There are simply builds that exist which are purely support and have virtually no DPS. I don't think it's fair to tell support players tough shit and to waste time and resources making a new build if they want challenges.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

Right, that's another good reason why league challenges should be allowed to be completed with teammates: There are simply builds that exist which are purely support and have virtually no DPS. I don't think it's fair to tell support players tough shit and to waste time and resources making a new build if they want challenges.

why is that a problem? It is pretty normal to not be able to complete content based on your character, and have to create a new character if your specific goal is to beat that content. A great example of this is one of the most popular archetypes ever: rf. Those going into RF know, or are told, right away that it isn't going to be an effective boss farmer because of low dps without crazy investment. They make a choice

Not counting brand new players, the vast majority of "challenge" people choose builds because they have some sort of goal in mind when they get to the endgame. Maybe they want an uber killer. Maybe they want a league start farmer. Maybe they want someone specialized in Ultimatums...etc.

Why is it suddenly off the table that, in order to complete all your challenges, you need a character capable of doing so?


And this idea of "waste time and resources making a new build" is antithetical to the entire game design. The point is that you SHOULD have to make new characters, you SHOULD want to build something different. Every build should not be able to complete everything in the game equally.


Challenges should be a test, not a guarantee.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

Right, that's another good reason why league challenges should be allowed to be completed with teammates: There are simply builds that exist which are purely support and have virtually no DPS. I don't think it's fair to tell support players tough shit and to waste time and resources making a new build if they want challenges.

I believe it’s already been mentioned that support players could always fall back on using their merc, assuming of course, the mechanic makes it into the core game.
But let’s be real here, the people who choose to play support are usually the more experienced crowd, picking that role in group play to rack up currency quickly. Sooner or later, they end up building their own characters anyway, rather than spending the entire league glued to a support role. In other words, they’re hardly being shut out of solo challenges, which makes the whole “problem” more of a talking point than an actual issue.
And as for the non-support builds that could fight for themselves but flopped into becoming zhp or zdps disasters, well they’re simply getting filtered by the checks as intended. If you can’t put together a halfway competent build… deal with it.

Imagine caring so much about how other people choose to play the game. Tens of thousands pay for carries, and they will continue to do so lmao

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Imagine caring so much about how other people choose to play the game. Tens of thousands pay for carries, and they will continue to do so lmao

Players can play however they want, nobody cares about that. But that doesn’t mean the game should revolve entirely around letting everyone do whatever they want without consequence. If someone chooses a ZHP or ZDPS build and hits a wall, that’s just a skill check doing its job, and skill checks are a good thing, even if some don’t like them.

That’s exactly why this topic exists, to make challenges not only more interesting than what we have now, but to design them as actual skill tests worthy of the name “challenge” and “challenge league.”

It’s funny how a simple idea or feedback toward that goal can ruffle feathers so much that the response turns needlessly negative, especially after running out of any real way to engage constructively with the topic.

I find it amusing that you've self described this idea as unpopular, then seem surprised that it's unpopular, yet think the game should change this way anyways.

They'll do what they'll do, not much else to add to the argument. The game is explicitly built around trade though, so unless they've had a major philosophy update they haven't conveyed to us, then I don't see this terrible idea ever coming to fruition. People that want a solo challenge will play SSF; that's what is there for no matter how you try to spin it. :)

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

I find it amusing that you've self described this idea as unpopular, then seem surprised that it's unpopular, yet think the game should change this way anyways.

They'll do what they'll do, not much else to add to the argument. The game is explicitly built around trade though, so unless they've had a major philosophy update they haven't conveyed to us, then I don't see this terrible idea ever coming to fruition. People that want a solo challenge will play SSF; that's what is there for no matter how you try to spin it. :)

Exactly, SSF was created for this very purpose. For the players looking for more of a challenge and prestige. Same for Hardcore.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

I find it amusing that you've self described this idea as unpopular, then seem surprised that it's unpopular, yet think the game should change this way anyways.

They'll do what they'll do, not much else to add to the argument. The game is explicitly built around trade though, so unless they've had a major philosophy update they haven't conveyed to us, then I don't see this terrible idea ever coming to fruition. People that want a solo challenge will play SSF; that's what is there for no matter how you try to spin it. :)

It’s not surprising to see familiar voices, those who’ve already expressed frustration with the game, dislike something that alters their experience, especially when it feels less like a simple, sugar rush walk. That said, if you look around, you'll notice that there’s not much discussion on this topic.
In that sense, it’s relatively unpopular, perhaps because no one has taken the time to suggest or create it. However, even things that initially seem under-hyped or contentious can gain traction over time, eventually becoming valid feedback for GGG. After all, that’s the whole point of the feedback section.

I still don’t think people fully grasp the original intent behind SSF. While it’s true that the mode is meant to be harder by design, it doesn’t help that the entire game is balanced around trade and an ongoing economy. Simply requiring players to invest more time doesn’t inherently make something harder or more challenging. Relying on RNG to determine whether you can complete a challenge, because you may or may not drop what’s needed also doesn’t equate to true difficulty.

The whole “just go SSF, bro” argument has already been debunked and doesn’t hold up as a valid excuse for why GGG shouldn’t design challenges in a way that’s engaging for both SSF and trade leagues. It’s become an overused cop-out, overlooking the fact that SSF isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution to the problem. For one, the mode doesn’t have its own dedicated environment that can be properly measured, nor are there exclusive badges or rewards for it. Plus, it doesn’t address the larger issue of carries, which let players bypass skill checks they should be facing in trade league.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Exactly, SSF was created for this very purpose. For the players looking for more of a challenge and prestige. Same for Hardcore.

SSF was designed as a fair playground for solo players who didn’t want to get outpaced by 6-man party play in ladder races. The idea wasn’t to make it some "harder" mode but to give solo players their own space to compete without the instant advantage of a full party. Before SSF, you could already play solo by avoiding trade and multiplayer, but let's be honest, the leaderboard is what really gave the mode a reason to exist. This is also why most competitive races are in SSF—because that’s where the real competition happens when the playing field is actually leveled.

Just because SSF exists doesn’t mean GGG can’t make meaningful changes to how challenges are designed across both modes. There’s no reason they can’t create challenges that work for both SSF and trade players without needing to develop two entirely separate sets. Challenges that come down to whether you can buy the right items or grind enough hours for a lucky drop aren’t real challenges, they’re poorly designed.

Challenges should focus on testing a player’s skill, not relying on currency or RNG. If, for example, the game presents a challenge and you attempt to complete it but fail because you can't pass the skill check, you shouldn’t be able to claim the challenge or its rewards just because others completed it for you. That defeats the purpose of the challenge entirely.

The idea of "You want it, earn it" can easily coexist in both SSF and trade modes. Trade league already gives you the advantage of an almost limitless item pool and the ability to ‘edit’ your gear through the market. If that’s still not enough to tackle challenges, especially when you’re outsourcing much of the work to SSF players, then it’s really more of a skill issue. The game has rightfully skill-checked and filtered you out, and that’s exactly how it should be.