Popular Opinion: In 3.28 League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

@Void: you should also find the numerous times that CW, Jonathan, and other developers have outright stated that they WANT folks to engage with their bosses.....which is why they spend so much time developing them.

I couldn’t find the exact statement on the fly. I did find it for PoE2, but I stick strictly to PoE1 sources, otherwise people will nitpick and dismiss it as irrelevant just because it is from PoE2, despite both games being made by the same team with the same design philosophy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QDzJLSMYbI&t=881s

That said, here is an interesting PoE1 interview with one of the designers responsible for boss content. He discusses how boss fights are designed with the expectation that players will eventually “cheese” them, trivializing encounters through raw power. He also mentioned that you push yourself to reach the point where you are able to do that, and that at certain points a character’s progression simply is not sufficient to tackle them yet.

There is a strong focus on growth and character development, making each victory feel earned as your abilities expand. Later in the same interview, he talks about uber-boss fights, explaining how key mechanics are modified to challenge players who have already mastered the baseline encounters. This indirectly emphasizes that the game encourages players to engage with the content themselves, learn those fights and get better rather than relying on external help or “carries.”

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

In another thread (I don't think it was this one?)

I believe you’ve linked this video on this topic here somewhere.

b

Up it goes

Can't wait to buy carries in 3.28, its gonna be so fun.

Challenges now are easy than ever. Look at my profile, many leagues in 36 or 38.

I remember the time in Abyss, when I did 300 influenced Shaper maps and 300 influenced Elder ones, manipulating both. That was painful.

You propose solo challanges. I propose challanges only in HC mode. Because why not?

No to bodythrowing technique!

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Can't wait to buy carries in 3.28, its gonna be so fun.

I wonder how much fun it'll be once GGG introduces solo challenges in some way, along with better challenges overall.
Gonna be lots of fun.

I feel like party play is not at all represented in the challenge sets either.

I therefore propose that I will accept your demand that solo completion be enforced for some challenges, and even accept that this has not been a case of unwillingness to accept that some people playing the game a differently than you, if you include the following group challenges:

1. Uber fights challenge must be completed in a party. To count, all participants must survive, and no participants may leave the area prior to encounter completion. Solo self found players may complete this without a party.

2. Complete tier 17 maps with at least 175% quantity and 5 scarabs. To count, no participants may die. Solo self found players may complete this without a party.

3. Complete league mechanics (delve, blighted maps, heists, ultimatum waves, simulacrums, etc). Solo self found players may complete this without a party.

4. Complete invitations with at least 70% quantity. To count, all participants must survive and stay in the encounter area until completion. Solo self found players may complete this without a party.

5. Defeat league bosses while in an area of at least level 80. To count, all participants must survive and stay in the encounter area until completion. Solo self found players may complete this without a party.

Why you might ask?

1. Very few people actually engage with party play. This would be a fun way to get people to actually play together with their friends, and maybe even meet some.

2. Because if this is in fact about making the challenges more interesting, why not expand them to include more dimensions of this online coop-optional game?

Otherwise, if you aren't willing to hear it, I stand by my original standing assessment.

Oh, and for the record, I did the 40 set entirely by my own gameplay, and even farmed most of the currency for currency use myself directly from source, I took a month and a half to do it, and I enjoyed it and found it perfectly rewarding to do so, without feeling any need to enforce these requirements on people who prefer otherwise or project any assumptions about them based on it.

This does not meaningfully change anything about carries, as players can still trivialize challenges, and it actually makes those challenges more frustrating for solo players in trade leagues. Players who farm ubers or t17 content would now be forced to invite random players simply to complete objectives for their challenge.

That said, you are correct that very few players meaningfully engage in coordinated party play, so forcing it in the wrong place makes little sense. As you have already pointed out, party play is effectively absent from the current challenge structure, and the reasons for that are already well understood. Instead of trying to impose party play on a game that largely functions as a solo and trade experience, a better solution would be to introduce a separate set of party play exclusive challenges.
These could be designed specifically with group coordination in mind, as was suggested many pages ago, before Toforto began to hold the topic hostage for pages.

In its current state, the game lacks meaningful content designed for group play, which in turn makes it difficult to create compelling party focused challenges.
A core issue is that party play itself is simply not in a good place, even when using a fully optimized and dedicated group setup. It is not an efficient approach at league start, and it remains suboptimal through the mid and late stages of a league as well. Beyond efficiency concerns, party play also struggles to be enjoyable, as build diversity often leads to poor synergy, with characters failing to meaningfully support one another. Additionally, the game’s content is not designed with structured, cooperative experiences in mind, such as those found in games like Lost Ark or World of Warcraft.

On the other hand, adjusting and improving the existing challenge system would benefit the vast majority of players. Even if GGG were to introduce optional elements aimed at group play, it would at least represent a step toward meaningful variety. More demanding and thoughtfully designed challenges are inherently more fun and engaging, and removing the current opportunities for trivialization would help restore their value.

Challenges should once again function as a badge of prestige and skill, serving as evidence that a player has meaningfully engaged with the league over time, rather than a participation reward that can be obtained in a matter of weeks without genuine interaction with the game. This aligns far more closely with GGG’s stated goal of keeping players engaged for longer periods, rather than accelerating burnout through shallow progression. That is why these changes are genuinely needed going forward, particularly for 3.28 or 3.29.

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Bigwilleh#1842 wrote:

Oh, and for the record, I did the 40 set entirely by my own gameplay, and even farmed most of the currency for currency use myself directly from source, I took a month and a half to do it, and I enjoyed it and found it perfectly rewarding to do so, without feeling any need to enforce these requirements on people who prefer otherwise or project any assumptions about them based on it.

Honestly all of that wouldn't change anything, people would still sell carries where you just join the party at the last second/whenever boss is in cull range. This is already what we do.

Either way I think challenges are great how they are, people have the freedom to choose to do em however they want, solo or with a full 6-man group. If GGG changes them too drastically that will cause many players to quit because their routine of getting the checklist done every league for 36/40 to get their free MTX would be broken. And that's just not good for the game.


The most I see them doing is adding some extra-special sparkly totem for doing challenges in HC or SSF. And different colored challenge badges for those modes. Ruthless has its own totem variant and badge so I wouldn't really care if they add more, I'm an SC Trade player and will forever play only that.

Trying to force everyone else to play the game in some certain way is just pointless. There is no reason to do that, when you yourself always have the choice to do challenges solo and flex all you want. It does not affect you in any way if other players in SC Trade can buy a carry for some challenge/boss if you're playing in SSF,HC or even the same league as them.


My only hope for challenges is that they exclude t17s and uber bosses from them finally, then they would actually be peak. But who knows, maybe 3.28 they'll finally delete t17s for good, or rework them into boss arena-only areas which is the same thing as deleting the maps. They said they don't like where t17s are in the latest reveal livestream, so there's a pretty high chance of a rework happening. This is also why all the loot bonuses from t17 mods got nerfed, as a temporary fix until they can properly nerf those maps next league.


tldr if you want achievement and all that stuff you're always free to do these challenges solo. Doesn't matter how anyone else does them. It never did.