A Simple Poll - Exp Loss on Death

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rxzxr8171#2046 wrote:

I honestly think you guys are exaggerating abt this topic.
Grinding from 95-96 takes 10 hours.

They also improved the amount of XP gained from maps a lot, 90% increase for mobs + like 2.6m for a fully juiced map bosses. I think it was 60% in last league

It’s also that you just need to kill normal and rare mobs, so changing up your passive tree to a more defensive one that can still one shot mobs for grinding is also possible, has anyone tried this? hmm

I honestly don’t focus on leveling ALL the time, this will get frustrating for anyone.
for example I just play and when I see like, oh i’m at 50%, lets get some ameliorations and lvl up, I can do that in a single session and not even that much of an effort lol.

I also tried to lvl up like 4 times in a row, and that’s not fun, that’s probably what a lot of people are doing, there are a lot of ways to improve your character and get stronger.

Leveling to 100 so you feel you “completed your character” is a very weird thing,
that’s a completionist/ocd like tbh haha

The operative word here is "juiced". For that you need currency.

This and other components of running the end game successfully are both abstract and obscure to most players. Guys like you know how to do it since you probable learned form PoE1. But even then, even if you know how to succeed in the end game, at its core, it also heavily depends on luck aka RNG.

Most players won't have luck. To do away with luck, one needs to avail of other people's luck. And this is through trade. Buying the gear to surmount a roadblock is the only true solution available in this game, when all the defensive options in the passive tree have been invested in. This is a FACT.

If crafting was reasonable then there would have been more successful SSF players than those in the Standard League. But we all know that is not the case.

So maybe don't start giving an opinion like yours when you seem to be seeing things in only one perspective and lack any empathy for those who do not share your experiences or perspective. You don't mind it at all, that's great, but so many others do and it's not a trivial thing to them as much as some here want to trivialize their pain and delegitimize their points.

Lastly, almost every ARPG and CRPG let's characters achieve max level. How is that "weird"? In every game, it is always the ultimate items / gear that differentiate max-leveled characters from each other, when skill trees are filled and player skills are honed to the best that these can be.

PoE adopting an XP loss mechanic is not what pisses most people off. It is putting in this mechanic without any method of recovery (ala Soulslike) or recompense for lost time that raises the bile in many people's throats.

+1

+1

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Skollvaldr#5851 wrote:

I'm in no way elitist or a pro. I will never reach lvl 100 on a character.

But you have no ground to stand on, no valid argument. There is nothing wrong with having an optional competitive element in the game that requires investment/dedication/skill to achieve.

Yes, I do have a problem when the highest reachable level of progression is reachable by anyone easily. That would be increadibly poor game design.

Your argument contains a fundamental contradiction: you begin by stating you're "in no way elitist" but conclude by explicitly arguing that "the highest reachable level of progression" should not be "reachable by anyone easily." The position that high-level achievements should be restricted to those with sufficient "investment/dedication/skill" is precisely what defines elitism in gaming contexts.

Saying that accessible progression equals "incredibly poor game design" is a false dichotomy, and misses the point of discussion. Death penalties have always been a contentious design choice in PoE, and with GGG saying themselves that PoE2 is supposed to not just be a copy of PoE1, that now is the time to re-evaluate how things have been approached before, it is fair to question and challenge death penalties, to rethink if they truly introduce additional challenge, or stifle progression through tedium and attrition.

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Elitista#7887 wrote:

People like you can waste their time all they want. You do not, however, have any right to waste mine or any other player's time by supporting a poorly-intended system for the sake of feeling good about being elite or having "prestige".

If this was made optional, you would still keep your enjoyment. You are still, after all, "better" than other players who do not want to suffer this idiocy, just like those who play Hardcore or SSF or Hardcore SSF.

Or does the idea of beating this game with XP loss on while others don't experience the same loss that bothersome to you? Does their suffering increase the pleasure of your "prestige"?

Do you hate the idea of everyone being at level 100 that much? Even if you will always have better gear and experience pinnacle content when most of the player base won't?

Are you someone who believes that GGG giving in to things like this is a slippery slope that ruins the game you want to keep exclusively to people like yourself?

What does that tell you about your character, eh? What does it tell the world about people who think like you?

The problem with your argument is that leveling to 100 is already optional.
So the only one who is wasting your time is yourself, because your playing a game you dont like and choosing to do optional content that you dont enjoy doing.

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Elitista#7887 wrote:

The operative word here is "juiced". For that you need currency.

This and other components of running the end game successfully are both abstract and obscure to most players. Guys like you know how to do it since you probable learned form PoE1. But even then, even if you know how to succeed in the end game, at its core, it also heavily depends on luck aka RNG.

Most players won't have luck. To do away with luck, one needs to avail of other people's luck. And this is through trade. Buying the gear to surmount a roadblock is the only true solution available in this game, when all the defensive options in the passive tree have been invested in. This is a FACT.

If crafting was reasonable then there would have been more successful SSF players than those in the Standard League. But we all know that is not the case.

So maybe don't start giving an opinion like yours when you seem to be seeing things in only one perspective and lack any empathy for those who do not share your experiences or perspective. You don't mind it at all, that's great, but so many others do and it's not a trivial thing to them as much as some here want to trivialize their pain and delegitimize their points.

Lastly, almost every ARPG and CRPG let's characters achieve max level. How is that "weird"? In every game, it is always the ultimate items / gear that differentiate max-leveled characters from each other, when skill trees are filled and player skills are honed to the best that these can be.

PoE adopting an XP loss mechanic is not what pisses most people off. It is putting in this mechanic without any method of recovery (ala Soulslike) or recompense for lost time that raises the bile in many people's throats.

1. I dont see how anyone could not have enough currency to roll a map...

2. I will 100% agree with your point on rolling maps/waypoints, its not very intuitive and unnecessarily complex especially for people who havent played poe1. It should for simplicity be, more affixes = harder = more loot. But that is currently not the case and you need to understand and use omens in order to roll maps efficiently.

3. It doesnt heavily depend on luck. It heavily depends on consistency.
If your the type of person (and im not flaming you just using an example) that runs 10 maps and then gives up because you got no divines then you would need luck. If your consistent and keep playing then the rng will average out the more you play. Imo the main reason why people struggle with currencies is A) That they give up because they arent "lucky" and B) That they dont know the value of things, they expect to get 5 raw divines per maps but they fail to realise that the majority of currency you can make doesnt come from raw currency drops.

4. If you dont have enough currency to roll a map you wouldnt have enough currency to craft anything

5. None of the above points have anything to do with exp loss.
Its been repeated a hundred times but I will do it once more. Leveling from 90-100 gives you almost nothing. Its aproximetly a 5% power increase, while getting a gear upgrade is 10x that atleast. So losing exp after level 90 doesnt really matter that much outside of the fact that you arent able to "achieve" 100. And there is nothing wrong wtih the game having optional achievements that are hard to get. If you look at any game in the steam store then you will find hard achievements that only a minority of the playerbase has achieved. Its incredibly common.

6. Exp loss on death or a similar penalty is incredibly common in games. And even if it wasnt that isnt an argument for it being bad.

+1

I also thought about this subject some more but there are two things I came up with

Buying stuff like tablets is more difficult in SSF, ao there should be an option to be able to play with less xp loss, like a SSF beginner league so you can show you did 100 but without the penalty and it shows: beginner league or somethin (I don’t play ssf)

also an option would be, the more you craft maps, the more XP you lose, for example a white map without mods you won’t lose xp, but ofcourse you gain way less xp, the more difficult the more xp you get just like the amount of revives

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Elitista#7887 wrote:

"

rxzxr8171#2046 wrote:

I honestly think you guys are exaggerating abt this topic.
Grinding from 95-96 takes 10 hours.

They also improved the amount of XP gained from maps a lot, 90% increase for mobs + like 2.6m for a fully juiced map bosses. I think it was 60% in last league

It’s also that you just need to kill normal and rare mobs, so changing up your passive tree to a more defensive one that can still one shot mobs for grinding is also possible, has anyone tried this? hmm

I honestly don’t focus on leveling ALL the time, this will get frustrating for anyone.
for example I just play and when I see like, oh i’m at 50%, lets get some ameliorations and lvl up, I can do that in a single session and not even that much of an effort lol.

I also tried to lvl up like 4 times in a row, and that’s not fun, that’s probably what a lot of people are doing, there are a lot of ways to improve your character and get stronger.

Leveling to 100 so you feel you “completed your character” is a very weird thing,
that’s a completionist/ocd like tbh haha

The operative word here is "juiced". For that you need currency.

This and other components of running the end game successfully are both abstract and obscure to most players. Guys like you know how to do it since you probable learned form PoE1. But even then, even if you know how to succeed in the end game, at its core, it also heavily depends on luck aka RNG.

Most players won't have luck. To do away with luck, one needs to avail of other people's luck. And this is through trade. Buying the gear to surmount a roadblock is the only true solution available in this game, when all the defensive options in the passive tree have been invested in. This is a FACT.

If crafting was reasonable then there would have been more successful SSF players than those in the Standard League. But we all know that is not the case.

So maybe don't start giving an opinion like yours when you seem to be seeing things in only one perspective and lack any empathy for those who do not share your experiences or perspective. You don't mind it at all, that's great, but so many others do and it's not a trivial thing to them as much as some here want to trivialize their pain and delegitimize their points.

Lastly, almost every ARPG and CRPG let's characters achieve max level. How is that "weird"? In every game, it is always the ultimate items / gear that differentiate max-leveled characters from each other, when skill trees are filled and player skills are honed to the best that these can be.

PoE adopting an XP loss mechanic is not what pisses most people off. It is putting in this mechanic without any method of recovery (ala Soulslike) or recompense for lost time that raises the bile in many people's throats.

I have never played arpg’s in my life before I played poe2 actually, but I do a lot of research and watch videos and try things out myself, i’ve been playing a lot tho and I always invest a lot of time at first when I do something new with anything in my life haha

I don’t remember when I started playing poe2 but I think I have 2 chars with 8 days playtime around that (one is from 1.0

also you don’t need to get perfect rolls on every map lol, i’m not gonna waste my perfect 3 roll prefix oerfect for XP wasting on a map that gives the node +30% xp

I save the good maps for the ~90% ones

I also craft 80% of my maps myself with omens (cheap ones) and get most of them from
rituals lol…

I only buy the tablets

and man you’re almost talking like i’m not human, I don’t feel the pain of other people, bro you sound like a snowflake haha
i’m pretty sure someone that got to level 100 know a lot more about how that frustration feels than someone who gives up at lvl 91

I haven’t been able to get to lvl 100 because I suck, sure
but i’m not going on the forum asking if they change the game so I can become lvl 100 because it’s so hard

like this jewelers orb now you get it in pretty nuch all maps, it’s like a common drop now, but guess that’s what common people want, everything to be common

-1

There needs to be consequences for dying. And I'm so glad that there's not gear damage and repairing broken equipment.
With that said it shouldn't be so difficult to upgrade gear and make yourself tanky. The fact you get one shotted at random with no chat log explanation, you just die way too randomly and one shots to ultra cheap boss mechanics and there's nothing you can do about it. Sometimes I die and die and die and lose half my level within 3 minutes, yes it pisses me off but I shouldn't just die like that. It takes me forever to level up, I don't like it. I gave up trying. There's enough flaws in the game that losing exp on death is not the core problem.