Please make the campaign harder

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

First of all, that's not how quotations work, you actually have to quote something I've said... where have I ever said those words?

First of all, quotation marks are not exclusively used for direct quotes. The more you know.

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You don't understand the point of weapon swapping in PoE2 even though they even showed it in some of their promotional material... you are supposed to combo skills together from different weapon types to get different results... this is not a thing in PoE1... the examples you've given me are yet again proof of that...

Are you tripping? What do you think is:
"Swapping to your second weapon set to use Ensnaring Arrow, to swap back (while Ensnaring Arrow is active) to deal more damage with Lacerate"?
That's exactly a combination of skills via different weapon sets...

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And again, swapping weapons in PoE1 isn't even close to being a feature used by most builds. You don't combo skills together in that way at all in PoE1 which is why I've said "you don't quite have in PoE1".

Don't shift the goal post. It was not about "not used by most builds".

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Also you talk about those two or three nodes that are more specific for spell but when I pointed out to you that the same thing but WORSE is present in PoE1 ... you somehow have nothing to say about that for PoE1? What do you think about the design of those nodes and ascendancies in PoE1?

I never denied that you don't have specific restrictions in PoE1 too.
You know, "Necromancer" is actually a great example of how restricting things to specific "archetypes" (whatever) does harm build diversity. How many builds besides "minion-related" are played on a "Necromancer"?
Are you able to see the problem now?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Are you tripping? What do you think is:
"Swapping to your second weapon set to use Ensnaring Arrow, to swap back (while Ensnaring Arrow is active) to deal more damage with Lacerate"?
That's exactly a combination of skills via different weapon sets...

You still don't understand the difference... In the example you gave me, you can play Lacerate without Ensnaring Arrow without any issues, it is not enabling one another in any way, shape or form. You're just debuffing someone with another skill to deal more damage with the other. In this case weapon swap doesn't provide anything BUILD DEFINING. You can literally do without it.

Now, in PoE2 that's a different story, because weapon swap can be VERY build defining. Here's an example. There is a crossbow skill called Stormblast Bolts that lands charged bolts on the ground that can be detonated by a skill with the "detonator" tag. For spears there was a new skill introduced that has this tag, called Thunderous Leap. Using these together would result in a build defining interaction. You're not just buffing or debuffing something to deal as much damage as you can with one skill. You're activating the effect of a skill through another skill. In this case, you can't use that skill without the other. You can't do without it.

It. Is. Not. The. Same. Thing.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

I never denied that you don't have specific restrictions in PoE1 too.
You know, "Necromancer" is actually a great example of how restricting things to specific "archetypes" (whatever) does harm build diversity. How many builds besides "minion-related" are played on a "Necromancer"?
Are you able to see the problem now?

So if you agree with me that PoE1's Necromancer is a great negative example, why would you give PoE1 as a good example for Ascendancies? There's no Ascendancy as restrictive as PoE1's Necromancer in PoE2. You're free to tell me which one it is if you find it. You can literally tell if you put the ascendancies side by side that there was a real effort to keep things as vague as possible in PoE2.

Again it all comes back to the same thing I've said initially.. PoE1 has been here for a longer time... while PoE2 is still very new... this diversity thing is not a priority conversation to be had at this stage when there are far other more pressing issues the game has.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

You still don't understand the difference...

Stop shifting the goalpost.
First you claimed:
"in PoE2 you can use 2 different weapons at the same time, something that you don't quite have in PoE1." and I told you that it is a thing in PoE1 without commenting on how many builds utilise it.

Then you went: "Aside from the fact that you prove yourself wrong in the same sentence, amazing... here's some food for thought for you... can you show me any PoE1 viable builds that use weapon swap and different skills with said weapons?" and I gave you build examples.

Now you go: "Nyo, PoE2 weapon swap is different compared to PoE1 weapon swap", well... yes. That was not the initial claim you made, which I responded to.
I already said that the added QoL and skill points are a PoE2 thing.
You know, ppl even used weapon swap to "snapshot", and GGG nerfed these interactions (mostly). That's basically what we do in PoE2 now. Anyway.

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So if you agree with me that PoE1's Necromancer is a great negative example, why would you give PoE1 as a good example for Ascendancies? There's no Ascendancy as restrictive as PoE1's Necromancer in PoE2. You're free to tell me which one it is if you find it. You can literally tell if you put the ascendancies side by side that there was a real effort to keep things as vague as possible in PoE2.

Sure, already said I agree on the "Necromancer" because it's the worst in PoE1 in that regard.

If you want to play something "not minion-related" on a "Necromancer", you have 3 nodes that do nothing for you because they are purely "Minion" stuff.

If you want to play something "not caster-related" (like Martial Weapon) on a "Stormweaver", you have "Tempest Caller" and "Rain Dancer", which do nothing for you, and "Constant Gale" and "Force of Will", which do besides the mana reg - noting for you. While this adds up to 4 nodes, I don't mind being generous to count the "Arcane Surge" nodes as "not nothing", thus lowering it to a value of 3 nodes doing nothing for you.

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Again it all comes back to the same thing I've said initially.. PoE1 has been here for a longer time... while PoE2 is still very new... this diversity thing is not a priority conversation to be had at this stage when there are far other more pressing issues the game has.

Again. The time ppl had to "discover" builds in PoE1 compared to PoE2 is secondary because it's not about the time it needs for ppl to discover builds - it's about "the available tools are way more restricted, thus the absolute number of possible builds is lower".
It's not something I make up for the lulz, it's just how it is.
More Restrictions > Less Possibilities. That's it.

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bewilder2#0356 wrote:

Its not even that hard either in 0.1 release, or in 0.2 release. Nothing is hard gameplay wise in this game, all you have to do is follow PoE 1 formula of high damage, high mobility, enough defense. The only thing that is "hard" in this game is getting the right gear with the right stat, and its not even difficulty, its just an illusion of difficulty because randomization.

Neither PoE 1, 0.1 and 0.2 before nerfs are getting difficulty right. GGG can't yet differentiate challenging / hard with punishing. And they probably won't because the game is structured around trading and itemization in which that is where the "challenge" lies, in which just the same like PoE 1, and ultimately just the same game like PoE 1 with prettier graphic and added dodge roll. But the core gameplay is just the same, kill fast, move fast, be efficient.

Yeah. Because poe has never been a skill based game. It's centered around gear and build.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Again. The time ppl had to "discover" builds in PoE1 compared to PoE2 is secondary because it's not about the time it needs for ppl to discover builds - it's about "the available tools are way more restricted, thus the absolute number of possible builds is lower".
It's not something I make up for the lulz, it's just how it is.
More Restrictions > Less Possibilities. That's it.

It's about the available tools? Like the almost half missing skills, weapon types and over 10 years worth of uniques that aren't there yet in PoE2 as opposed to PoE1? *facepalms

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

I never denied that you don't have specific restrictions in PoE1 too.
You know, "Necromancer" is actually a great example of how restricting things to specific "archetypes" (whatever) does harm build diversity. How many builds besides "minion-related" are played on a "Necromancer"?
Are you able to see the problem now?

Excuse me, what ?
Only minions on Necromancer, is ignorance

Funniest thing is, none of GGG employee will ever read all this whining, let alone considering it as valuable feedback

Game is way too easy right now, bottom line.


Hardcore doesn’t change the difficulty of the game in any way whatsoever, it changes the stakes. This can give some people the sense that it’s harder because it invokes an emotional response in the player because they will potentially lose the character. However, there is no change to the difficulty of the game. If the game is too easy, and the risk of dying minimal, then you are trivializing the stakes that make hardcore exciting. you like playing for placebos that’s fine, but pretending this changes everything is your ego talking. It changes one thing in the game, and that one thing doesn’t happen until AFTER considering difficulty.


Bads will be bads, looking for an easy, brainless, just like every other Arpg on the market. Despite there already being games that follow these formulas, and cater to these types of player bases, they want to make sure this game is like that too. This is why we can’t have nice things. Watering down anything that the masses can’t easily swallow because they are too stupid to chew

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Again. The time ppl had to "discover" builds in PoE1 compared to PoE2 is secondary because it's not about the time it needs for ppl to discover builds - it's about "the available tools are way more restricted, thus the absolute number of possible builds is lower".
It's not something I make up for the lulz, it's just how it is.
More Restrictions > Less Possibilities. That's it.

It's about the available tools? Like the almost half missing skills, weapon types and over 10 years worth of uniques that aren't there yet in PoE2 as opposed to PoE1? *facepalms

Facepalm as much as you want, the restrictions are still in the game.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

I never denied that you don't have specific restrictions in PoE1 too.
You know, "Necromancer" is actually a great example of how restricting things to specific "archetypes" (whatever) does harm build diversity. How many builds besides "minion-related" are played on a "Necromancer"?
Are you able to see the problem now?

Excuse me, what ?
Only minions on Necromancer, is ignorance

Excuse me what?
Out of 5250 characters, if you exclude all "minion-related" builds, you have less than 200...

I didn't say "non-minion builds are impossible", I said "how many non-minion builds are played on a Necro".