The Vision - Ziz interview

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MathiasSoul#7397 wrote:

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tarloch#1873 wrote:

the solution is to make the player have a reason to kill the normal mobs. like they will drop this item that i need to get..

you should also have a progress bar instead of marking the mobs in maps, now all you will get is players bee lining the rares, exactly the situation you want to avoid

it isnt rocket science

Okay. So how useful is the item? How rare is it to drop? What is it needed for? Is it tied to player power? If it's tied to map completion, how do you avoid situations where the last normal mob isn't hidden somewhere off at the edges of the map that you missed? In the event that that happens, will you mark the normal mob on the map? How will you answer the players after the outrage they experience from having to back track to said normal mob?

It's not rocket science. It's game development.

not really sure if you are trolling but here goes
well the obvious one is make it a currency needed for crafting or something. a currency u use alot and need alot of

Progress bar means you do not have to kill everything on the map, say 90% of the mobs, rare give more progress ofcourse. just make sure maps have enough mobs and let the player blast away like now, should solve oh shit the last mob is way over there
hows that for game development while i eat dinner

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Shadeless01#5109 wrote:

the current game is clunky as hell, will see how long those people that scream "keep the game as slow as it is now" will stick to the game. Maybe they just all trolls hired by competitors.

can confirm I am not a troll, not paid, and do enjoy this gameplay more than poe1.

I honestly feel that if the new PoE1 league didn't get delayed so much, most players wouldn't complain so much about PoE2.

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

I loved zoom at first.
After 5 years of speed creep, I F!@#ing hate zoom.

PoE2 (and poe1 ruthless) is everything I want out of PoE.
I am the target audience. I'm loving 0.2.0

I respect this opinion, especially from someone that's been playing the game for awhile. But what you and I both need to consider is keeping players. Like, this should be obvious but as much as you enjoy the game, you only benefit from a sustained player base. This is in the form of internal economy (unless SSF) and developer financials (GGG makes more money for longer amounts of time, this means more and better content).

Like, I'd love to see ruthless in PoE 2 and I'd certainly play it. However I'm not alone in thinking that type of gameplay isn't something I'd want to do continuously in 3 month intervals, as part of the base game. To me, that removes one of the most appealing aspects of PoE 1.

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gingerpauls#2326 wrote:

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Shadeless01#5109 wrote:

the current game is clunky as hell, will see how long those people that scream "keep the game as slow as it is now" will stick to the game. Maybe they just all trolls hired by competitors.

can confirm I am not a troll, not paid, and do enjoy this gameplay more than poe1.

I honestly feel that if the new PoE1 league didn't get delayed so much, most players wouldn't complain so much about PoE2.

yes and your one of the few people that like ruthless , that's exactly my point.

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gingerpauls#2326 wrote:

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Shadeless01#5109 wrote:

the current game is clunky as hell, will see how long those people that scream "keep the game as slow as it is now" will stick to the game. Maybe they just all trolls hired by competitors.

can confirm I am not a troll, not paid, and do enjoy this gameplay more than poe1.

I honestly feel that if the new PoE1 league didn't get delayed so much, most players wouldn't complain so much about PoE2.

Nah, I was excited for POE 2 cause POE 1 wasn't for me. I do not enjoy the pacing of this game though, and absolutely would not come back to do this campaign a 4 times a year for leagues.

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CheshuR#1175 wrote:

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

I loved zoom at first.
After 5 years of speed creep, I F!@#ing hate zoom.

PoE2 (and poe1 ruthless) is everything I want out of PoE.
I am the target audience. I'm loving 0.2.0

I respect this opinion, especially from someone that's been playing the game for awhile. But what you and I both need to consider is keeping players. Like, this should be obvious but as much as you enjoy the game, you only benefit from a sustained player base. This is in the form of internal economy (unless SSF) and developer financials (GGG makes more money for longer amounts of time, this means more and better content).

Like, I'd love to see ruthless in PoE 2 and I'd certainly play it. However I'm not alone in thinking that type of gameplay isn't something I'd want to do continuously in 3 month intervals, as part of the base game. To me, that removes one of the most appealing aspects of PoE 1.

It's also important to realize that MOST OF THE NOISY PLAYERS... don't play longer than a month into the league.

Versus ARPG fanatics like myself and my guild who have been playing 20+ years. Every D2 ladder reset, every PoE ladder (life event permitting), etc.

PoE1 will be there. It doesn't take a lot to make a compelling PoE1 update. They don't need as much content as before.

PoE2 does not need to capture all PoE1 players. They are fundamentally different games, I'm sick of people trying to shift it the other way.

Just look at the supporter packs of a lot of the complaints. It's great the game is growing! It might be smart to have two modes.

But it's EA. Move fast, break things, iterate quickly, test new ideas. Don't run this like PoE1, it's a new game.

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Shadeless01#5109 wrote:

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gingerpauls#2326 wrote:

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Shadeless01#5109 wrote:

the current game is clunky as hell, will see how long those people that scream "keep the game as slow as it is now" will stick to the game. Maybe they just all trolls hired by competitors.

can confirm I am not a troll, not paid, and do enjoy this gameplay more than poe1.

I honestly feel that if the new PoE1 league didn't get delayed so much, most players wouldn't complain so much about PoE2.

yes and your one of the few people that like ruthless , that's exactly my point.

Sorry, I guess I missed your point. Could you reiterate?

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

I loved zoom at first.
After 5 years of speed creep, I F!@#ing hate zoom.

PoE2 (and poe1 ruthless) is everything I want out of PoE.
I am the target audience. I'm loving 0.2.0

+1

I don't think there would be nearly as much complaining about the loot if the monsters were toned down a bit, especially unique bosses they take far too long.

I'm all for Ruthless 2.0

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

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CheshuR#1175 wrote:

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

I loved zoom at first.
After 5 years of speed creep, I F!@#ing hate zoom.

PoE2 (and poe1 ruthless) is everything I want out of PoE.
I am the target audience. I'm loving 0.2.0

I respect this opinion, especially from someone that's been playing the game for awhile. But what you and I both need to consider is keeping players. Like, this should be obvious but as much as you enjoy the game, you only benefit from a sustained player base. This is in the form of internal economy (unless SSF) and developer financials (GGG makes more money for longer amounts of time, this means more and better content).

Like, I'd love to see ruthless in PoE 2 and I'd certainly play it. However I'm not alone in thinking that type of gameplay isn't something I'd want to do continuously in 3 month intervals, as part of the base game. To me, that removes one of the most appealing aspects of PoE 1.

It's also important to realize that MOST OF THE NOISY PLAYERS... don't play longer than a month into the league.

Versus ARPG fanatics like myself and my guild who have been playing 20+ years. Every D2 ladder reset, every PoE ladder (life event permitting), etc.

PoE1 will be there. It doesn't take a lot to make a compelling PoE1 update. They don't need as much content as before.

PoE2 does not need to capture all PoE1 players. They are fundamentally different games, I'm sick of people trying to shift it the other way.

Just look at the supporter packs of a lot of the complaints. It's great the game is growing! It might be smart to have two modes.

But it's EA. Move fast, break things, iterate quickly, test new ideas. Don't run this like PoE1, it's a new game.

That's kinda one of the problems though, isn't it? It's actually quiet difficult to discern what's noise and what's a commonly held compliant or dissatisfaction. It's entirely possible that the problems I see for the future of PoE 2 with it's current projection could be a minority opinion. PoE 2's numbers are still looking respectable but it's still early and there's also a lack of competing content. Time will tell.

As far as it being EA, like I said earlier my concern is this may be a problem with philosophy that proliferates into the future. This has a cost of good will between dev and player, which can already be seen in the review bombing PoE 2 received, even if it's overkill. Even if the criticism that the negative response is overblow is 100% true, a functional solution will never be trying to convince people the game is actually good, when they think it's not. So the game will either change course OR stand to lose players that don't like the direction it's going and that'll be up to GGG. My main point here is if the game is gonna be changed it's best they understand the underlying issue, instead of slow hotfixing the game into PoE 1 and making everyone displeased.

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Shadeless01#5109 wrote:

yes and your one of the few people that like ruthless , that's exactly my point.

Here's the thing that might conceptually not be entirely obvious.
If we had to make a choice between A / B game mode.

One had a lot less loot dropping, higher monster power relative to players.
I don't imagine a lot of players would OPT in for that. We already see it with the ruthless player counts, and maybe that has to do with other reasons. Playing with friends, bigger economy ect.

If everyone was forced to play in that mode with no option or existence of the other it would just BE the mode that everyone is on.

So I feel like and this isn't a new perspective. That POE2 is a type of ruthless mode. So let's say your intention was to design the game around ruthless, then most players would need to be on ruthless for you to make it as good as it can be. If you truly believe that ruthless is a better game, with more tension, better feeling of earning rewards both externally and internally (loot and satisfaction).

Just saying that make Ruthless optional, while I might agree with that sentiment, I can also see it from the designers perspective of wanting the game to have a lot more friction.