If players want a better game...

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Stryfer#0953 wrote:

Can we just chill for a second?

The crying ("You've ruined this game!", "Change everything!"), blackmailing ("I'm a long time supporter, you need to listen to me!", "I'm refunding everything I bought!") and doom threats ("This game will die if you don't do this!", "No one is playing your game!") etc. None of it is helping anyone.

Well formed sentences with constructive feedback and realistic, somewhat precise, suggestions go a long way towards helping them improve the game.

They exist, but are getting harder dig up from under the mountain of hate and anger being spewed at the devs by players that supposedly want them to succeed. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here commenting, right?

So please stop lashing out like they murdered your dog and took away the only joy you ever had in life and give them something they can work with. If enough of us do it, at least they won't have to sift through a thousand "Game is dead! Change everything!" posts to find one piece of meaningful feedback.

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Stryfer#0953 wrote:

Can we just chill for a second?

The crying ("You've ruined this game!", "Change everything!"), blackmailing ("I'm a long time supporter, you need to listen to me!", "I'm refunding everything I bought!") and doom threats ("This game will die if you don't do this!", "No one is playing your game!") etc. None of it is helping anyone.

Well formed sentences with constructive feedback and realistic, somewhat precise, suggestions go a long way towards helping them improve the game.

They exist, but are getting harder dig up from under the mountain of hate and anger being spewed at the devs by players that supposedly want them to succeed. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here commenting, right?

So please stop lashing out like they murdered your dog and took away the only joy you ever had in life and give them something they can work with. If enough of us do it, at least they won't have to sift through a thousand "Game is dead! Change everything!" posts to find one piece of meaningful feedback.

"

wilcoscheepers07601#7081 wrote:

We are all thinking it but can't say it because of community rules.
OP is sucking something though.

"

I know this post is a bit diff feedback and is more positive than negative, so a bit of a change...but just how I'm feeling for now.

Why? I feel GGG has actually changed a bit more compared to the past in that they seem to be listening more to the overall community sentiments in what the masses want (of course, there are folks who do not like this 0.2 patch notes, but again, still too early to judge, and as well all know, you cannot please every one in a video game - it's impossible [also certain forums, like EA Forums have "biases", of course]). One thing's for sure. Their goals are shown a bit more clearly in terms of their "vision" for PoE2 actually (just took several months in EA..)...in that they want the future of PoE2 to Grow and they want to increase their overall playerbase and numbers (including season/league to season/league), by changing the formula of PoE1, i.e. zoom zoom 1-shot to a bit more slower pace and methodical combat like in Campaign (not as much like "Souls-like", but in a similar sense, in a way) And now efforts in end-game (it seems like it, at least). Which is a great goal to try to achieve that PoE1 has unfortunately missed out on. And in by doing so, I believe their numbers can Grow and exceed PoE1 and actually be more sustainable longer-term.

I don't want to jump-the-gun here of course like I said earlier re. "too early to judge" but just feels this way for now (as per the new interviews and patch notes, some YouTube, etc). And again, Balance is not easy, and never said it was, but again, Balance has to be done - even at the expense of a "$hitstorm". Furthermore, the above changes, should also have a side "bonus", i.e. build diversity. I do feel now that there will be more builds viable, and fewer "cookie cutter" stuff. Again, this is a step in the right direction. I believe the build diversity in PoE1 (I didn't play PoE1 that much, but I still got to maps for 2 classes back then) was (is?) superior to PoE2, that indeed it still has an upper hand on. However, PoE2 is slowly creeping up from 0.2 I believe - in this criterion. I also feel that these nerfs kinda "indirectly"/passively is a "loot buff", in a way -- as build diversity increases, you will have more options of course, and with more options to explore, there may be fewer chances or odds needed for more loot, as there may be more builds that are viable with the current loot/drop rates/system -- so this also is a neat and potentially effective/efficient way of dealing with some of the previous issues before 0.2 ("loot buffs", etc) -- which can also lead to a bit more "life" for SSF folks (yay? [again, this favors SSF a bit more over Trade, which, again, seems to be what GGG are trying to do more, or the overall direction, at least]).

GGG is trying to play a longer-term game here, and usually that will have to introduce some additional hits/cons ("$hitstorm") in the earlier phases but in the longer run, it can/should pay off - it will take more time to see this though. Still very early to see (it is EA/early access after all), but will be able to give more "judgment" and feedback later once 0.2 hits. But again, overall, I feel this is a step in the right direction.

One example why is that it seems like they have their own unique "strategy" of addressing the dreaded "zoom zoom 1-shot" (end-game) that many threads have talked about in the past few months ("rate 1-10 for end-game" threads, etc [note, it also seems they have improved the "1 death penalty and xp loss" thing too]). It's interesting way to do this, as it does introduce a "$hitstorm" (folks getting nerfed), but I still believe it's fine since it is EA, and that's the whole point. Why it's worth it: The overall Balance of the game was still too 1-sided to specific builds/classes and/or specific niche things about a class in order to make them viable late-game, and much of them also were attainable via Trading. This "alienated" a decent percentage of the playerbase (again, certain forums are "biased", including this EA Feedback Forum), and that percentage of playerbase was exactly the clients/customers GGG still wants to attain/sustain. Again, if this was not done, the "masochists" (this word can be a bit harsh yes to use as a "description", but it's about a "unique type of players who enjoy playing their own way..", that doesn't really cater to the masses [which, again, remember why GGG embarked on this PoE2 in the 1st place -- it was to broaden and grow the playerbase more, from PoE1]) playerbase would be the ones GGG would keep, just like in PoE1 -- and again that defeats the whole purpose. As per the recent interview/"Q & A"(s) from GGG w/ others (streamers, etc), I believe (though I didn't go through it all)/my interpretation of it was that they do not really want PoE2 to be Balanced around Trade - and rather, more for SSF (in a way) - or something along those lines - and that they do not intend the end-game bosses to be 1-shot (and zoom-zoom). So, again, by doing so, this can help that -- and again, a step in the right direction (in my opinion). Yes, you can argue that in 0.2, Fubgun and others will learn to break the game in other/different ways, but this is the way it'll be always anyways. By achieving 0.2, it still achieves a "baseline" of Balance -- one where it did not even exist in the original EA release (before 0.2). And this new "baseline" is an improved starting point in my opinion (again, still too early, but more "judgment" on that later once 0.2 hits). Once Fubgun/others break 0.2, another patch. You can say then - "what's the point of 0.2?" -- It's to lessen the blow -- future patches will not have to be as "vast". Again, should be a step in the right direction.

I don't want to speak for the community of course, but I just see a lot of posts not enjoying 0.2 patch notes, and for those folks, just try to read the above and see the potential positive side of things. Then maybe it won't seem so bad. Personally, I wouldn't say "give my money back/refund" or all those other threads/posts about "dead game" etc ("reviews on Steam will tank soon", "going to Last Epoch/Diablo 4", "3.26", etc) -- again, it's just too early to make judgment (this is 0.2, and there's actually still quite a bit of time left for gamedev until Full Release 1.0 [X'mas 2025, Q1 2026?]). (of course, there are various "bias" in certain forums/communities, and I do feel that at least in these EA Forums, it may be heavily biased towards folks who Trade lol, and play non-melee classes...lol - or do not favor SSF-type of game-play -- but regardless - it is what it is). Try out the 0.2 game (when released), and then see for yourself. The recent interviews of GGG/streamers - they express that 0.2 is like "a new game", and while perhaps that may be a bit of a stretch, I do see their sentiments from the patch notes, and really, you have to play to see for yourself -- there's just no way every one has some crystal ball/oracle and knows exactly the impact those 0.2 patch notes have done to the game/experience definitively (no matter how much you analyze it and, "Path of Building" it, predict every mob/boss/class interaction, etc -- simply impossible).

Like there are just so many details in the 0.2 patch notes. (I know this sounds weird, but I'm even considering trying Warrior again lol. Changes on HotG, Perfect Strike, Magma Barrier, etc etc etc --- so many changes. Personally, before 0.2, I struggled w/ all the gem/skills of Mace w/ Warrior, in terms of finding something I really enjoyed [that's "true" melee lol...yes quarterstaff/monk doesn't count lol] -- except 1 build really -- but then that 1 build required Trade, and I basically wanted to be SSF basically -- but now w/ 0.2...doors have opened more to revisit Warrior again and to see how it is. I also never Ascended my Warrior before 0.2, but now w/ the Kitava Ascendency [personally I'm favoring the offensive options over defensive nodes...but it makes sense why...more options than wearing a dress to save ~20 armor nodes seems nice for a change... -- and I'll try defensive nodes later too, for perhaps another build -- again, we all know the armor issue is still outstanding, but this change is still a step in the right direction, and perhaps later, an improved more "fundamental" change will be done to address it/armor], I think it's worth it finally to actually Ascend. Also, of course, I want to try Spear w/ Warrior [then I'll try Merc w/ Spear, then vanilla traditional Huntress]. Anyways...the point is, this looks like a good 0.2 patch, and lots more to explore. Yes, no Druid/Templar/Marauder, but again, this "foundational Balance" is needed.)

TLDR: 0.2 patch notes looks good -- I believe step in the right direction for sure (despite the $hitstorm [still a bit too early to judge -- no crystal ball/oracle for these early negative posts, as impossible to know before playing]) -- more "foundational Balance" needed (favors more SSF over Trade - in a way - which is needed for its future Growth compared to PoE1 -- feels like slower pace potential, more build diversity potential, etc) -- definitely worth it to LOGIN Apr 4 and explore more (or even just give it a chance/try out [for some folks]) -- And thank you GGG ;) (some more details above as to why..)

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PyramidSwim#5866 wrote:

I'm actually in the minority that I don't think player feedback helps at all, which is why I hate Early Acess games, but this is PoE, I had to play it on Early Access, I have an addiction.

It's not player feedback that makes good games, it's passionate development team whose primary concern is to make a fun game. This patch screams of Blizzard-like ego back during their huge downfall. There were fun games, in fact still some of the best games back before games could never really receive player feedback until after the game was done and released. This is a new phenominon and I DON'T think it helps development cycles, it makes money before the game is done, so I understand why teams do it financially, but I personally just hate it. A beta test for a totally feature complete game being the exception.

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KingDaMuncha#6025 wrote:

Dont fall for this troll bait.

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PyramidSwim#5866 wrote:

I'm actually in the minority that I don't think player feedback helps at all, which is why I hate Early Acess games, but this is PoE, I had to play it on Early Access, I have an addiction.

It's not player feedback that makes good games, it's passionate development team whose primary concern is to make a fun game. This patch screams of Blizzard-like ego back during their huge downfall. There were fun games, in fact still some of the best games back before games could never really receive player feedback until after the game was done and released. This is a new phenominon and I DON'T think it helps development cycles, it makes money before the game is done, so I understand why teams do it financially, but I personally just hate it. A beta test for a totally feature complete game being the exception.