Please don't be like blizzard

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Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

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voonvoon#6984 wrote:

Games with this level of freedom in character builds are insanely hard to balance in a way, that everyone is happy and all gem combos are equally powerful.

In competitive games they manage to do it, but players there are ready to constant balance patches. You may think that most competitive games don't have such level of freedom, but they certainly do, some of them. For example, in Smite you may consider each of 130 heroes as skills, each team pick 5 skills, and around 300 purchasable items can be considered as support gems. Possibilities to build a team are absolutely endless, still they manage to balance it. So the problem is not in the level of freedom.

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

But in PoE we also have a Skill Tree with about 1300 nodes.

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Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

But in PoE we also have a Skill Tree with about 1300 nodes.

In LoL for example, each player chooses among 70 passive nods and they all different, there are no just "+5 attribute" or "+10% projectile damage", so it is not that much difference. Maybe overall level of hero customization in PoE 2 is a bit larger than customization team in Moba games, but not by far, it is somewhat comparable.

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

Yeah but LoL also have/had quite unbalanced stuff which needed to be toned down/up. Remember OG Darius for example?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Yeah dude, let's "nerf" Monk and "Mages" (Sorc/Witch), the most popular classes atm by 30% instead of nerfing the reasons why they are strong, which most classes can use, like "HOWA" or "Pillar" or "Skills". THIS will get you sooo much player retention, unbelievable.

Deal 20 more years with macro games and come back when you have a clue.

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avantasian#4928 wrote:

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Yeah dude, let's "nerf" Monk and "Mages" (Sorc/Witch), the most popular classes atm by 30% instead of nerfing the reasons why they are strong, which most classes can use, like "HOWA" or "Pillar" or "Skills". THIS will get you sooo much player retention, unbelievable.

Deal 20 more years with macro games and come back when you have a clue.

1- I never said how they should be nerfed, they can be nerfed through adjustments to the "reasons" that make them strong.
Nerfing the "reasons" can make them 30% weaker than what they are now.

2- Monk is popular because in addition to having mobility, the class has 800,000 dps while warrior has 30,000~50,000
Class balance precedes whether it is popular or not.

3- Don't listen to me, keep your wonderful game where monk has 800k dps and warrior 30k and remain with less than 100,000 players.
Apparently retention is "good".

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Gwonam#5505 wrote:

I've watched the GDC talk, and I've also talked to Chris himself about how GGG landed on the sweetspot for PoE's patch cycle. It's a super interesting topic, but I can't help but feel that Chris' philosophy of releasing major content updates only at the start of major patches is... outdated. At least, for an early access game, where people expect a fully functional product. It sounds dumb, but that's what people expect from early access these days.

Times have changed. WAY more games are vying for our attention now than last decade. And with that change, gamers have become far more fickle. People tend to rotate between 5-6 games at a time these days. This isn't 2013 anymore, where people stuck to 1-2 games and put up with any inconveniences in the meantime. If the new honeymoon game (PoE2) isn't holding peoples' attention for longer than a month, they'll just move to one of the many other, similar games on the market.

As much as it pains me to say it, GGG was the top dog in ARPGs last decade because their competitors either shat the bed (Diablo 3) or died outright due to freak circumstances (Marvel Heroes 2016 dying because Gazillion's CEO was a sex creep, despite Brevik and Doomsaw salvaging the game). GGG can't ride on their laurels anymore. They might have to *gasp* reconsider their strategy.

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Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

Yeah but LoL also have/had quite unbalanced stuff which needed to be toned down/up. Remember OG Darius for example?

But overall they do MUCH better job at balancing stuff than GGG. Hell, they even have balanced melee heroes :)

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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avantasian#4928 wrote:

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Yeah dude, let's "nerf" Monk and "Mages" (Sorc/Witch), the most popular classes atm by 30% instead of nerfing the reasons why they are strong, which most classes can use, like "HOWA" or "Pillar" or "Skills". THIS will get you sooo much player retention, unbelievable.

Deal 20 more years with macro games and come back when you have a clue.

1- I never said how they should be nerfed, they can be nerfed through adjustments to the "reasons" that make them strong.
Nerfing the "reasons" can make them 30% weaker than what they are now.

2- Monk is popular because in addition to having mobility, the class has 800,000 dps while warrior has 30,000~50,000
Class balance precedes whether it is popular or not.

3- Don't listen to me, keep your wonderful game where monk has 800k dps and warrior 30k and remain with less than 100,000 players.
Apparently retention is "good".

It doesn't matter what YOU would nerf when your target is "Monk/Mage".
Alone that you WANT to nerf them shows that you don't understand the game.
There is literally no way to "nerf" a class besides changing their ascendancy.
Everything else has to happen based on "Items, Skills, Interactions" and so on.
But these things can be used by everyone, so you nerf everyone in the process.

Nerf Heralds? Well, makes Warrior and Merch weaker too.
Nerf HOWA? Well, makes Warrior and Merch weaker too.
Nerf X? Well, you get the point.

Have you played Warrior? I did.
You can literally oneshot pinnical bosses. So your "30k dmg" argument doesn't apply. Missing variety is a thing, but half the items are missing anyway.
The biggest issues are defences and the small hitpool and the speed of animations.

Funny how you think Merch needs a buff. You mean the class that can be a Gemling? The probably most broken ascendancy in the game atm for high investment? Mkay.
Seems like I only deamt that I killed everything that was rendered, even beyond my screen, with a single attack while having stats no other class can reach.

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avantasian#4928 wrote:

Nerfing Herald of ice will not make warrior weaker.
Here how i would nerf monks/quarterstaff.

- Decrease atk speed on quarterstaffs, 30% to 18%
- Herald of ice only explodes in the range of your attack, not the whole screen
- Ice strike quality bonus changed from atk speed to frost buildup

Thats a good start, maybe more later.