Could we please have a SSF solution similar to the last Epoch's Circle of Fortune?

It's ultimately about whether a developer wants to enforce their vision on players, or provide options to service the player.

Last Epoch has the philosophy of providing choice and customization, so it has a trade and a non-trade mode, it has a real offline mode, and it has a crafting system with extremely high player agency.

POE2 has the philosophy that players should play the way the devs intended it to be played, and hence absolutely no choice is provided to players in all the game systems. You either play it the way GGG intends it to be, or you can leave.

From the stream, it's clear that GGG will never do anything for SSF and make it any different to the standard mode, and it is clear that they like Item Rarity the way it is.

So I don't think any amount of persuasion would change that any time soon.

I don't mind their vision.
What I mind is their cluelessness.

It's been interesting watching the SSF crowd completely and utterly about-face for the new game. In PoE1, SSF folks were generally always smug jerks who liked to crow about how superior they were to trade players because they didn't 'rely' on the 'crutch' of player trading and they played the game as a pure and beautiful Loot Finder Only Experience. The number of times I've seen SSF people jeering at other folks' expense in the regular forums pre-PoE2 is very high.

But now, and only now, is it about "player choice" and "enhancing the experience" and all sorts of highfalutin' moralistic junk about how finding loot feels more rewarding and meaningful than buying loot and all the SSF players want is an Optional Option of +2 Options to, y'know...just get a minor, simple 10k+% boost to all their drops in an SSF Loot Fiesta mode so they can abandon all the Evil Cheating baby-Eating Tradeleague Tryhards to their den of iniquity forever.

Man. What a spin.

Last epoch's implementation works well in itself but it would be a lot harder to do something like that in PoE cuz it has big fundamental differences. We don't have stuff like exalted items or legendary potential that makes the item chase longer and longer even if you have an abundance of loot.

Also it would mean that you won't be able to migrate from SSF to trade league and i don't think GGG would go there.

If I'm understanding it correctly you just don't want to engage with trade but also be rewarded for it? I don't know if it's logical to be rewarded for making the game harder for yourself on purpose.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1hlzax1/loot_from_an_11breach_300_increased_item_quantity/

Rarity affects both the amount and the type of currency you gain.
0 and 100 Rarity are completely different games.

Even in HCSSF I prioritise Rarity over Resistances, because of how mandatory Rarity is to get Regals + Exalts and to upgrade your gear during campaign.
Is that really intended?
And if it is intended: Is it a good thing?

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Beykber#2177 wrote:

...
If I'm understanding it correctly you just don't want to engage with trade but also be rewarded for it? I don't know if it's logical to be rewarded for making the game harder for yourself on purpose.

The general argument, when the SSF guys aren't being insufferable, is they look at cool loot on the trade site and say "I want to FIND that, not buy it" or "I want to MAKE that, not buy it", because to them buying items from other players is boring and feels like cheating. They're playing the game for the dopamine hit of Finding Cool Loot; acquiring an item via trade denies them that dopamine hit and also makes getting that hit later with a drop that improves on the bought item much harder.

It's why you see so much focus on Last Epoch's Special SSF League, where they crank the drop rates through the Kuiper belt. In PoE2 terms, what the SSF guys want is for toggling on SSF to provide you something like a 1200% Item Rarity bonus passively by default, a 5x Quantity bonus, a 10x quantity bonus for currency specifically on top of the general 5x quantity bonus, enable the Lucky/Good Rares system from POE1 that modifies an item to trend strongly towards 'Great!' modifiers and apply it to all drops, so on and so forth.

Effectively, they want "SSF" to allow them to get stronger loot than can be acquired in trade leagues and to get it more swiftly/easily than trade leagues can do, so they can get that dopamine hit of "oh, that item is AWESOME and a huge upgrade for my build!" twenty or thirty times a night. However ridiculous and unfeasible that is.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

"

Beykber#2177 wrote:

...
If I'm understanding it correctly you just don't want to engage with trade but also be rewarded for it? I don't know if it's logical to be rewarded for making the game harder for yourself on purpose.

The general argument, when the SSF guys aren't being insufferable, is they look at cool loot on the trade site and say "I want to FIND that, not buy it" or "I want to MAKE that, not buy it", because to them buying items from other players is boring and feels like cheating. They're playing the game for the dopamine hit of Finding Cool Loot; acquiring an item via trade denies them that dopamine hit and also makes getting that hit later with a drop that improves on the bought item much harder.

It's why you see so much focus on Last Epoch's Special SSF League, where they crank the drop rates through the Kuiper belt. In PoE2 terms, what the SSF guys want is for toggling on SSF to provide you something like a 1200% Item Rarity bonus passively by default, a 5x Quantity bonus, a 10x quantity bonus for currency specifically on top of the general 5x quantity bonus, enable the Lucky/Good Rares system from POE1 that modifies an item to trend strongly towards 'Great!' modifiers and apply it to all drops, so on and so forth.

Effectively, they want "SSF" to allow them to get stronger loot than can be acquired in trade leagues and to get it more swiftly/easily than trade leagues can do, so they can get that dopamine hit of "oh, that item is AWESOME and a huge upgrade for my build!" twenty or thirty times a night. However ridiculous and unfeasible that is.

I don't understand why you're so antagonising and hostile (and personal too), instead of trying to understand the issue that is being talked about.
Your comment is just strawman fallacies and personal insults.
I know you can do better :)

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

I don't understand why you're so antagonising and hostile (and personal too), instead of trying to understand the issue that is being talked about.
Your comment is just strawman fallacies and personal insults.
I know you can do better :)

Because I am utterly sick of SSF people misunderstanding the draw of Path of Exile for a significant percentage of players.

I do not give a single fat frog fart where my loot comes from. Is it cooler if I find/make it myself? Sure, but not by remotely enough to quaver about it. Games like Last Epoch, D4, and the rest are all about playing one of the half-dozen or so preset character builds the devs give you and grinding day and night to find More Bigger Badass-er Loot to make that build more numerically powerful. It's "how far can you push this prebuilt character?"

I play Path of Exile because I want to create my own builds. I want to try interesting interactions, I want to see a really cool idea on YoUTube somewhere and try it out. I play this game for the unrivaled build diversity and depth of customization. The economy and loot randomization actively gets in the way of what I'm here to do, but I deal with it because it's an unfortunate staple of the genre and because I can use trade to get around it provided I find enough currency. Loot is a means to an end, not "The End" in and of itself the way it is for SSF people.

or, to put it another way - for SSF people, builds are the unfortunate obstacle they have to get past in pursuit of sweet delicious loot. For Buildcraft people, loot is the unfortunate obstacle they have to get past in pursuit of awesome fun builds.

If they did what you want? Made SSF the "standard" game mode with loot randomization absolutely maximized with no ability whatsoever to acquire specific niche build-enabling items outside blind idiot luck? The game would become completely unplayable for me and mine.

So a big negatory to Last Epoch mode, please. If I wanted The True SSF Experience I'd be playing Last Epoch with their one single planned/intended build for every class and signing my soul away to the Grind Gods for loot. I'm not. I'm here in PoE, working on Cool Builds as my time and currency allow.

I like the idea but I doubt the devs would do that - they got their own vision of whatever they want PoE2 to be to distinguish themselves.

Personally I don't like playing loot simulator and trading site simulator but since I don't have much time to play I'll just try to be the most efficient with time. Does it take away from the fun of finding my own loot or builds? Sure does, but I suppose it's a trade-off and it's a EA so lots of stuff will change regardless in a year or so.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

It's why you see so much focus on Last Epoch's Special SSF League, where they crank the drop rates through the Kuiper belt. In PoE2 terms, what the SSF guys want is for toggling on SSF to provide you something like a 1200% Item Rarity bonus passively by default, a 5x Quantity bonus, a 10x quantity bonus for currency specifically on top of the general 5x quantity bonus, enable the Lucky/Good Rares system from POE1 that modifies an item to trend strongly towards 'Great!' modifiers and apply it to all drops, so on and so forth.

Effectively, they want "SSF" to allow them to get stronger loot than can be acquired in trade leagues and to get it more swiftly/easily than trade leagues can do, so they can get that dopamine hit of "oh, that item is AWESOME and a huge upgrade for my build!" twenty or thirty times a night. However ridiculous and unfeasible that is.

Now you are just being dishonest. There are no bonuses like that in LE. I think the biggest one is 50% increased chance of getting exalted affixes on rares. That still doesn't change the fact that those exalted affixes can spawn on a rares that you will never use because of the wrong base and you can't exactly target specific bases via prophecies anyway, only the item types.

If the game is balanced around trade, having SSF players getting more loot/currencies does not affect trade players in any way. SSF players won't participate in the economy because they don't like trading for various reasons. I hate going to a website to get something in-game, I know a lot of people who don't like it either because it's immersion-breaking.
If there was an auction house, maybe trade would be more appealing to people. Anyway, I will play SSF and it doesn't matter to me whether the drops are buffed or not. I play my ARPGs to find loot and not buy it. I played trade in Kalandra league and it totally ruined the game for me because I started to farm currency instead of drops and it felt like I had to pick up things I didn't want just because they could be useful for someone else. Buying gear felt like cheating and made me quit the game halfway through because there was no more 'working on gear' or getting lucky. It was simple a matter of getting enough currency to afford the next item on the list.