The Passive Tree should be the same across all classes.

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Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

Yeah, but no.

Would make classes obsolete, so no.

It won't happen

Braindead take.

Poe1 had the same tree across classes and classes very much were not obsolete there. Rub a few brain cells together, it’s cold outside.

I’m not necessarily for or against this, and I’m NOT arguing to make things the exact same as PoE1 - just calling out how wrong this is.

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pattw555#0071 wrote:

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Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

Yeah, but no.

Would make classes obsolete, so no.

It won't happen

Braindead take.

Poe1 had the same tree across classes and classes very much were not obsolete there. Rub a few brain cells together, it’s cold outside.

I’m not necessarily for or against this, and I’m NOT arguing to make things the exact same as PoE1 - just calling out how wrong this is.

Well, kind of my take but as I learned very recently, the starting nodes are not the same for all classes in PoE 2. PoE 1 also has not the same starting areas for each class, in fact each class has its own starting area and therefore differs from all other classes. In terms of key stones and big nodes, there should be no differences despite the travel distance to certain key stones.

So, the statement "one tree for all classes" in fact would make classes obsolete because without dedicated starting nodes, without different starting points, each class would be the same. The only thing left that differs would be ascendancies.

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ibims111#7338 wrote:

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pattw555#0071 wrote:

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Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

Yeah, but no.

Would make classes obsolete, so no.

It won't happen

Braindead take.

Poe1 had the same tree across classes and classes very much were not obsolete there. Rub a few brain cells together, it’s cold outside.

I’m not necessarily for or against this, and I’m NOT arguing to make things the exact same as PoE1 - just calling out how wrong this is.

Well, kind of my take but as I learned very recently, the starting nodes are not the same for all classes in PoE 2. PoE 1 also has not the same starting areas for each class, in fact each class has its own starting area and therefore differs from all other classes. In terms of key stones and big nodes, there should be no differences despite the travel distance to certain key stones.

So, the statement "one tree for all classes" in fact would make classes obsolete because without dedicated starting nodes, without different starting points, each class would be the same. The only thing left that differs would be ascendancies.

You’re a bit confused about what this entire thread is about. Everyone knows the starting nodes are different. What OP is saying is in PoE2 the actual individual nodes within the passive tree vary by class. There are actually nodes in the tree that are X for one class but Y for another class. Nothing to do with starting nodes.

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PerforatedIntestines#2752 wrote:

In all situations where it is possible, there should be no differences in the Passive Tree for a class versus any other.

GGG has stated in livestreams that things are coming back which will modify the tree, and as such things which are minor in scope now may not be so later. The principle of the tree is that everyone can meet there, and that a build is defined based on how you traverse it. Witch alone should not get minion buffs on their spell nodes, it should be shared across all classes. This is one location where changing from PoE1 should not be allowed. The tree is sacred.

I'm all for player freedom, but I dont think this is a good idea. Some skills should have a higher cost to get to depending on your class; a str class should find it difficult to pick up int skills and vice versa, tho I do wonder about the armor/ES armors we see out there.

Skill picks have a cost - if you REALLY want a caster skill as someone starting on the opposite end of the skill tree, you're gonna pay for it.

So you want everyone to be scion from POE 1 basically.

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pattw555#0071 wrote:

...

You’re a bit confused about what this entire thread is about. Everyone knows the starting nodes are different. What OP is saying is in PoE2 the actual individual nodes within the passive tree vary by class. There are actually nodes in the tree that are X for one class but Y for another class. Nothing to do with starting nodes.

Sorry, but I tend to overexplain and lose myself in stuff like that. But it is also fun, so why not...

I am not sure if you understand what I mean. Let me explain.

Each class in PoE 2 starts in the middle but has a different starting point. The Witch is north, the Mercenary is south, etc. Clearly this is not the issue here. As far as I can tell, this thread is about nodes having minion dmg for witch but not for sorc, for example.

So, with that out of the way, lets talk about the witch. She starts north, she has access to minion damage. The sorc starts north, she does not have access to minion damage. Just like the warrior, also no access to minion damage.

What is the solution here? Should all classes have access to minion damage? Should no class have access to minion damage? What about attack speed, cast speed, energy shield, projectile speed, evasion? Should players choose what their build works best with? A dropdown as we have it for attributes on each node?

Or, should we be able to choose the entry point into the tree? Like, where we start in the middle? Should a Witch be able to start south to get attack speed on lvl 1? Should a Warrior be able to start east to get projectile damage?

Like, if the argument is, that each class should have access to minion damage on the first ten levels, because, funfact, the only difference in the tree is in the starting areas surrounding the middle, affecting the first 10 to 15 levels, than this argument should also apply to all other stats for each of the twelve classes. And then we are at a point where it could not get worse because every class would be the same. If every class has the same level of access to all options, there is in fact only one class.

Isn´t the choice of a class and the resulting benefits and downsides exactly what makes a game like PoE fun? Stuff like, "oh, mercenary is far off mom but close to totem nodes", stuff like that. Difference, boarders, variety, choice that matters, choice that fits a purpose, choice that eliminates certain other options for balance, choice that puts obstacles in the way to be solved in order to make things work? Maybe only at level 30, or level 50, or as late as level 80 when enough passive points are collected.

Imagine you are about to build a street crossing and everyone always just goes right, no one ever goes left or straight, why is it a crossing at all? Just make a right turn, done. Think about it. If every class is the same tree wise, same starting area, same nodes, same all, why do you need classes at all?

This might be extreme, but ultimately, if this argument is made for minion damage, it can be made for any other stat in the game. And this would eventually lead to one build to rule them all.

And, btw. I don´t agree to the tree being sacred. The tree is a tool that should be adjusted to enable players to create the most amount of different builds possible. And for that purpose it is in a pretty good spot considering its 0.1.

People made minion Warriors and Witch Crossbow builds. So, there are ways to do things. Don´t you think?

I'm just parroting something that has already been said, but is an extremely good idea:

Players should be able to choose the starting passives similar to how they can choose +5 attribute passives. This way every class can choose either starting passives in that region without needing to be the matching class.

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

I'm just parroting something that has already been said, but is an extremely good idea:

Players should be able to choose the starting passives similar to how they can choose +5 attribute passives. This way every class technically can get any starting passives that they want without being locked out of anything specific.

This was not an idea but an exaggeration that makes life way to easy.

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This was not an idea but an exaggeration that makes life way to easy.

MB i reworded that reply. What It meant was that in the witch/sorceress starting area as example you can choose between the witch/sorceress passives. It didn't mean you could start with "melee damage" or something in that section of the tree.

I think it made perfect sense in PoE 1, but it doesn't in PoE 2. Classes were designed around attributes in PoE 1. You had 1 Int class for instance, the Witch. So, you could just start the Witch in the Int area of the tree. Any further class identity would be handled by ascendancies.

In PoE 2, we have Sorceress and Witch. If their trees were the same, ascendancies would remain the only difference. If that were the case, then why not just roll them into a single class with more ascendancies? The answer to that is, why is a Witch doing Sorceress things or vice versa? Changing the trees gives us a reason to choose one class over the other. I like that we can now have multiple class identities within the same primary stat. Witches do crazy occult shit, and Sorceresses do arcane and elemental magic. You can still have one do the other if you really want to, but if Witches weren't better at crazy occult shit, then why have different Int classes at all?