Getting stun threshold with CI sucks

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

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Tekkar#0132 wrote:

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

What is wrong with a keystone with a very powerful upsides also coming with a few downsides exactly?

If you want to be super resilient to stuns with Chaos Inoculation just travel a bit down to grab the notable passives Asceticism and Self Mortification. You can easily get 74% of ES as base stun threshold with that cluster along with 20% increased stun threshold while on full life which is 'always' with Chaos Inoculation. That's more stun threshold with an ES build than a life build will have.

I‘m not saying a keystone with powerful upsides should have no downsides. Not having life (i.e. getting rid of the 1000+ hitpool plus any life modifiers one might get on gear) is already a big downside, and it‘s good that it has this downside. My problem with this is that it feels mandatory to pick up the ‚ES as stun threshold‘ nodes whenever you pick CI, so why wouldn‘t you integrate that into the keystone, if you have to pick it up every time anyway just to make the keystone playable?

You don't lose any Life on gear with Chaos Inoculation, because you should only be using Defence prefixes to begin with. If you have mismatched gear your build typically isn't ready to start using the keystone in the first place.

You technically don't need stun threshold to play the game either. There are a ton of different tools, even this early in early access, that can help against being overwhelmed. It is definitely very punishing if you don't have the safety net of stun threshold, but that is just the choice of the player in how they decide to approach a problem.

Now it might be a good design idea to move some stun threshold on the tree a bit closer to Chaos Inoculation, but It shouldn't be built into the keystone. If the downsides of a keystone are negligible then the keystone might as well be mandatory itself.

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Tekkar#0132 wrote:

So the solution is to forsake an affix slot that I could use for resists, and then use all of my 2 charm slots just to deal with not getting stunned, when the entire charm system is also supposed to help with other ailments like freeze?
This is still a good idea tho and I will try that, so I thank you for that! Still, fundamentally, there must be a better way to design the underlying system than this bandaid fix.

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Tekkar#0132 wrote:

Losing Life on gear with CI is a huge downside even if you get good gear that only has defence prefixes, because it turns a common mod into a dead mod, making gear that doesn‘t have that dead mod more difficult to find and also more sought after for all CI players, which makes them a lot more expensive. So, while maybe not an obvious downside, this is still a massive downside to the keystone.

Apart from that, I have for example 5k ES and 4k Mana, so a hitpool of 9k points. That‘s 10% less than if I also had the 1k base life. Seeing as a whole ascendancy node for Titan is ‚15% more life‘, having effectively 10% less hitpoints sounds like a very significant downside as well.

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FrozenSakuya#0168 wrote:

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Tekkar#0132 wrote:

So the solution is to forsake an affix slot that I could use for resists, and then use all of my 2 charm slots just to deal with not getting stunned, when the entire charm system is also supposed to help with other ailments like freeze?
This is still a good idea tho and I will try that, so I thank you for that! Still, fundamentally, there must be a better way to design the underlying system than this bandaid fix.

Think about what you're saying again. You literally don't have to get chaos resistance suffixes and runes which is already a huge upside, and it opens up so much room to fix whatever you need to fix. ES is also currently the strongest defence in the game. Adapt.

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Tekkar#0132 wrote:

If you decide to get CI, your stun threshold pops to 0. You HAVE to get a bunch of "% of your ES as extra stun threshold" nodes. Nobody picks those nodes because they make you stronger, but because they are mandatory to not get stun-locked when there is more than one mob attacking you. Integrate the stun threshold being based to some part on ES into CI.

Also, if you pick Mind over Matter and choose to build that to be a big part of your defense, there are currently 0 ways to make your mana pool influence your stun threshold. Add "% of your Mana as extra stun threshold" to Mind over Matter.

Now, one might say "Yeah, but if you get CI you're probably a mage or so, just stay at range and you'll be fine". And they would be right in situations where that is possible. In general mapping, you can play like this and you'll be fine. But Simulacrums are impossible like this. I have 5k ES and 4k Mana with Mind over Matter, and I can tank Xesht's huge hand slam as well as several of his arm slams easily on +4 difficulty. I can kill him quickly and not get stun-locked by anything because he's just one guy and there is lots of space.

A simple Simulacrum without any added difficulty is impossible for me, because I can't afford shelling out more than 15 extra passive points to get all of the extra stun threshold nodes in addition to the ones I already have, just to get a similar stun threshold that I would have with a life-based build for free.
And there is no way to keep your distance from the hordes of mobs. They spawn from all directions, and even though damage is not the issue and I can kill them all really quickly, it takes just one mob to hit and stun me for there to arrive 5 more than then stun-lock me in an arena that has approximately 4 square metres of space.

Using charms is currently not a good way to solve the issue, because getting an extra charm slot is still fairly impossible, it takes up an affix slot on your belt that could be used for other stats, and therefore you can choose if you want to die to all the stuns or if you would rather die to getting frozen.