Let's talk crafting

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

the guy who has no reading comprehension and calls out others....doesn't have reading comprehension. Love it.

When I mention "Let's not discuss PoE 1", I only meant to steer the conversation away from the inevitable: "But PoE 1 had this!"

"limiting orbs to once per item"....uh, where is that written?

Yes....PoE 1 had aspects of my suggestion. Many other games also have aspects of my suggestions. You know why? Because I play games with crafting. I formulate my ideas based on the things I've seen and I like. The crafting bench of PoE 1 in particular...I liked. With the exception of meta-crafting mods, I liked the ability to deterministically add one mod (generally lower power) onto an item.

But I don't want to get bogged down in "PoE 1 did this, PoE 2 did that". Conversations like these can quickly devolve into literally nothing being said except descriptions of what already exists.

I'm glad that the first two posters, trolls in every other thread they come across, didn't derail this one entirely (cue their responses...). Just ignore the useless comments and keep going.

I have no problem with actual criticisms, my ideas won't resonate with everyone and I'm happy to hear that. But I have absolutely no patience for idiots who are just here to stir the pot and try to get people probated.

Your idea would necessitate locking orbs to once per item or it would just be POE 1 with a new coat of paint.

[Removed by Support]

Good luck with your thread.

First, current "crafting" (or rather lack of it), is fully intended and good for the start of the game. There will come time for more complex and powerful crafting mechanics later on. Now it is the "test the core game" time, however it seems many people can't understand that, maybe they missed the "early access" part.

The core is very good. It forces you to think about what you want to achieve and pursue it. You pick up white and blue items to craft on them, instead of having one highest ilvl base that you just spam everything on, and then ignore 99% of the loot in the game. Makes loot actually matter. And obviously, people may feel like it wastes their time because they know how it can work in PoE1, but it is how it is, you can't have satisfactory moments without some friction to get to them. I personally enjoy it a lot,

For what I would like to see like next small step, is essences being usable on any step of the crafting process, with reduced effectivnes depending on amount of already existing mods. So if you use it on white item, you may get highest tier of a mod. If you use it to add mod to blue item, like with augment, the available mods will be of lower tiers, and so on.

I hear a slight challenge, and its clear that it is an early access title. A subset of community wants no crafting - ruthless like -> separate game mode, a fragment prefers the same crafting options like in poe1. Nuances exist in between.

I couldnt find a statement like a roadmap what the target state is, considering statements like most players will enjoy their crafting through campaign (ggg).

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Gkek#1581 wrote:

Honestly, if I had recognized you I wouldn't have bothered responding as you have some of the most hamburger brained takes I have ever seen, and it's clear you don't play PoE at a level high enough to even understand what's going on.

Good luck with your thread.

mmm more troll bait.

Not that I need to prove anything to you, but I'm sure I've done everything you have ever done in the game 10x over.

I have 16000 hours and 12 years in PoE 1. The only thing I have never done is HC because I simply hate the idea of permanent death and I value my time a bit more than that.

Go ahead and keep digging your ridiculous hole even deeper with each thread and response. Nice try though.



For the thread: I am NOT against the "gambling" aspect of using orbs. I think it has its place, and that place is necessary at SOME point in the process. I do not, however, think it should be the ENTIRE process. The lottery should be hit on the drops, not on the crafting.

I see we are mostly stuck on PoE 1 carryovers, and really no new "fresh" ideas. Should have expected that. Was hoping we could ignore orbs/essences/etc. and all the "crafting" that existed, and attempt to create a completely new system to achieve a different goal. But it seems we all keep trying to take the pieces that already exist and "fit" them into a new system. I don't really think that's possible...

There have been some good ideas, and there have been some contrary to my own thoughts. I'd like to add: do you think an elaborate crafting system should exist at the expense of devaluing every possible drop you come across? This is the case in PoE 1. It is currently NOT the case in PoE 2, only because crafting is essentially the same process as finding a rare item: click and pray.

I think some degree of "click and pray" is valuable, it feeds into the dopamine rush of hitting the lottery on an item. I just personally feel like that should be almost entirely relegated to wild rares, and not using orbs. I also don't think mirrors should not exist at all, but that is a somewhat separate point as it isn't technically "crafting".

Essences should go back to their old way of adding a SPECIFIC known modifier, but the (poe1) values should be much lower. Have the tippy top essence offer a t3 or t4 level of mod, and have it be unusable on future fractured bases. This alone could get nearly any build in PoE 1 from campaign to t16 maps which is a huge problem.

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There have been some good ideas, and there have been some contrary to my own thoughts. I'd like to add: do you think an elaborate crafting system should exist at the expense of devaluing every possible drop you come across? This is the case in PoE 1. It is currently NOT the case in PoE 2

May i ask one question.. did you ever loot rares in poe1? It depends how you like to play the game..
Some picked up rares, some crafted, some traded.

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Storylyne#1859 wrote:

May i ask one question.. did you ever loot rares in poe1? It depends how you like to play the game..
Some picked up rares, some crafted, some traded.

Looting rares was an objective waste of your time and energy in PoE 1. This is simply mathematical fact. No one past a certain point touches any rare items...especially with the addition of fractured items as regular drops. I picked THOSE up all the time. Normal rares? Never.

Using an essence on a white base + 1 crafting bench mod was better than a million rares you could find in the wild.

I am NOT talking about SSF...that is an entirely separate beast.

Buying now 500 rings from a vendor in need for bases to aug and regal, exalt - doesnt feel great.

Currently im forced to pickup or gamble craft with little to no influence on the stats of an item in the refinement.. 100% gamba (excl essence for now). In principle im fine with gamba but not as the only source. In the old version i had a mix.. i could pick up rares/ uniques - you could have done that too , i could invest currency for the gg craft, or something in between.. but for sure 6xt1 were laying on the ground. Mathematically the chances to pickup were probably not far worse than in poe2... refinement is just more random.

Why is that now lesser waste of time?

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Fhrek#4437 wrote:

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SewDoughOfficial#5478 wrote:

You wanna fix crafting?
Really simple solution right now.

Bring back scours and alterations, or implement a way to reroll magic items on a good base, as well as a way to clear all modifiers and reset to white.

Regal and pray is not the way.

I'm still puzzled what was the intention on get rid of alterations, scours and changing chaos orbs. Makes no sense.

Being unable to unsocket runes are other decision I can't understand, make it break when removed.

But, all those decisions have only one intend so far... brick the bases. There is no redoing or experimenting.

If you want an honest answer it's to give the base value. If the base is bricked you need a new base. making the base item have value again since they aren't everywhere or a scour orb away.

I'm glad Alts are gone. I don't think Clicking 500 times till you alt into the One thing you are looking for and then Augment and hope is a good thing either.

The hard part is trying to find a balance between RNG and Determinism, If you can just invent a perfect item then you don't need to go off trying to chase currency in harder content, or you finish your character much too early and don't have a reason to keep playing.

The Problem with PoE as usual is that it's power curve is a staircase instead of a curve. There are no systems or mechanics to improve a little bit. It's all around getting big jumps of power because the gambling is focused on starting from scratch and hoping you get into a big ticket Item.

The only way to solve this curve is to TRADE your way up the ladder of gear. Trade is the Bandaid on their inability to design an actual power curve of progression.

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Storylyne#1859 wrote:

Why is that now lesser waste of time?

No I think you are missing my point. I even said earlier that picking up items in PoE 2 is already more important (because of scarcity and lack of crafting). But it could be BETTER than it currently is.

PoE 1 honestly...you can do whatever you want but still, objectively, picking up rare items was a waste of time BECAUSE of all the methods of crafting that existed. It was too much and too powerful. You might have found something useful every now and then, but you would have instantly had something useful just using an essence and the bench. Instant item with a good base and 2+ high powered helpful mods. The odds of finding something even as simple as that was....insane. And essences were everywhere, starting even in Act 1. In all my recent playthroughs of the campaign and actually most of mapping, I can't remember a single time I ever touched a non-fractured item drop. And I had more than enough to get me to red maps. I would find a white item from a vendor, craft using the various recipes we had or use an essence. Drops meant absolutely nothing, except currency for currency's sake.

The one thing the (lack of) crafting in PoE 2 has shown us is that it doesn't really take a heck of a lot to make rare drops matter more. Even in their current less than ideal state.

right now we are alteration spamming without having alterations. its an illusion that a white base has more value now, because they are showering from the sky.
they should give us alterations OR scouring back. i dont mind spamming 300 alterations on a base to get 2 good modifiers i want to go on with. but collecting 300 of the same base for it? no, rly no, i wont do that cause it sucks. give us alterations back and reduce the showering of white item bases by 80%. same result without the tedious collecting of white garbage.
essences are garbage too, they need tiers again and being upgradable. the fact you can get tier 1 or 2 constantly with a greater essence is stupid.