You lose.
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So, the maps and map tiers in this game are pretty much equivalent of rifts/pits in D3/D4.
In D3/D4 a handful of builds is ever able to reach maximum difficulty at all (which is tier 150), not to mention beating it on timer. Wast majority of builds in those games are always sitting somewhere in the middle of the difficulty progression ladder. And portion of builds are completely unplayable beyond certain tier thresholds. And somehow, people are still playing different builds and classes, even that they know for sure that they are physically and mathematically unable to ever reach super-high tiers of endgame and there will always be 1 or at most 2 super-broken top-tier builds per season, who will be able to reach final tiers. Everybody knows it, and they still just play it, even if their build is destined to sit in the middle of the pack and never be able to reach super-high tiers. But somehow when it comes to PoE community - there is so much bitching and crying that not every single build on earth is capable of doing top-tier endgame content, which is on par to that is being boosted by shitloads of various monster damage modifiers. So just to sum it up: You boost-up monsters with Atlas passives, then you boost-up maps themselves with affixes, and then you jump-in into the highest tier of difficult, you get one-shotted, and then you come to forums bithing about being one-shotted after doing all that? Did I get that right? You are bithing, that you are dying to hardest possible difficulty or hardest possible bosses, while playing non-meta and non-broken builds intentionally, and you feel somehow entitled to be able to facetank top difficulty with any build that you come up with? And you also expect that every single class/ascendancy is entitled into facetanking and facerolling top-tier difficulty endgame content? Portion of this community are either retards, or communists with their retarded 'equality for everybody' mindset, or both. I have never seen so much ignorance and stupidity in one place as on these forums. If you are dying to random fart in a map, which has shitloads of damage modifiers added to it, then guess what? - You should not be there in the first place with your build. |
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" Your take is off. It’s throughout campaign and end game. |
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TLDR of this entire thread:
People not understanding the game is early access. We do not have the same level of diversity and breadth and depth of systems, or have systems that are really polished, because that is the whole point of this. To say, "I don't like this, fix it" isn't necessarily poor feedback per se, but certainly isn't incredibly useful feedback. You have two choices - A: Wait for more skills and ascendancies and systems to arrive, then describe how some feel vs others, what doesn't work specifically about certain systems, etc. B: Give specific feedback on what about the systems and skills that exist right now could be improved, or even better, start throwing out ideas for what you've seen work, or even something totally random you came up with you might like to see/try in the game. Just saying you don't like the whole of endgame, and whining there are only a handful of builds to play, is really not helping. |
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It took me about 100 hours to finally make a character that could clear the campaign (frost sorceress of course). It was my fourth or fifth character. I finally got to the end game. Yay...right?
Then I figure out that you die once and lose the whole map. Then I figure out that losing the map bricks it (lose all modifier stuff). Then I find out that you lose XP as well. Then I stopped playing. I mean, I made a new character (the warrior dude) but melee felt BAD. Really, really bad. It's beta. They are meant to fix things so I'll give them some time. Still, some ideas are just dumb and should never have been implemented. Like one death per map, or no AH. |
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It's more that PoE has historically given you the option to make characters that are good at different things.
You want to do Delve, you make a character for Delve that sucks at other things. You want to do bosses, you make a character for bossing that sucks at other things. You want to do fast mapping, ... etc. But all these characters would be able to get through the base content more or less with no problems. Most people aren't complaining about high-tier content. Hell, most people aren't even out of the campaign. But anyway, I don't know. I think many people are ultimately getting stuck on the same problem, which is that their character never really feels "powerful" no matter how they build it, and that's... a bummer. |
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" I totally understand and agree with this take. I can't pretend I am not slightly disappointed by the builds that are "possible" on EA. But it's completely unrealistic to expect a game that just became available to the public to have the same level of depth and diversity as a game that is going on 12 years old. We just gotta let them cook. I am almost positive build diversity will demolish PoE1 in the next two years even, simply because of how the systems interact. Not only that, but the disparity between builds (aside from of course, jungrogaine type interactions that get found, but that's okay, they're always cool to find and check out before nerfs) should be smaller than it was in PoE1 as well, and we largely have difficulty and going back to truly loot based gameplay to thank for that. |
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" If we agree that the "campaign" leads you to the "endgame", then: Pits in D4 are not the endgame, but you consider it like that just because there's no real endgame defined basically. But that's a different discussion overall. The endgame in reality was to kill Lilith (pre-expansion), that was your supposed final boss and pretty much everyone did it one way or the other, everything after that point enters the realm of "grind" which is fine and dandy. The "endgame" here also in a similar manner continues the campaign questline via reaching t15 maps and then doing the citadels and reaching your major boss, the equivalent of "let's kill Lilith". It is still part of the campaign though but the fact is that some builds at the current state will never be able to finish these quests, they might not even be close to t15s ( which is a constant problem with balancing etc, so I consider it a standard thing and a problem that will be addressed ). Point being is that you can't compare Pits with this, it's a totally different take. You can completely "ignore" the Pits in D4 and you've still beaten the actual game. You can't ignore this questline here though. I'm not against you by the way, just giving an alternative point of view. The endless "grind" of Pits and what you essentially trying to compare here is after you finish the questline which includes boosting the boss Atlas passives etc and making everything harder and harder. That's your pits, it's not the t15 questline, that should be accessible to pretty much everyone so they can "beat the game". If GGG doesn't want everyone to beat the game, that's a different story and that's fine as well. But you're trying to compare 2 different things imho. |
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My very first character to endgame was a Bonestorm based Blood Mage.
At first, I tried minions with it. It didn't synergize well. (Maybe that'll change with Spectres). Then I noticed how much physical damage was in our pathing nodes and was like "huh.. maybe I should just go spell/phys" and went bonestorm / bonecage / detonate dead. Everyone was saying blood mage isn't meta, it's bad, it's not gonna work out. > Killed every single citadel boss. > Killed Trialmaster. > Almost killed Arbiter on Blood Mage but died to last phase. Has admittedly not amazing clear but it's great against bosses. Then I made a Deadeye, because Tailwind feels great. You all know how that one goes. Meta. T18 shredding, bosses dying in 10s tops. etc. Arbiter died in 12 seconds. Then I made a Sorceress. I'm going to be going Chronomancer on that one since everyone says it sucks. Stopped at act 2 because friends were saying they were having a hard time with monk. Now I'm playing Monk (Invoker, because Chayula just doesn't look appealing to me) In act 2 cruel and it's a blast with really decent clear early game (No idea how it'll scale in Endgame) but point is, the campaign is only a slog through the first time. Once you've learned what to do, what's mandatory, boss mechanics, etc, it's generally a non issue throughout the entirety of campaign. Is the campaign long? Yeah, because it's intentionally built that way until we get the rest of the acts. Game's easy. Not a finished product. Endgame is lacking yeah but we're in beta. Shit's gonna suck for a while until it gets better. No need to doom and gloom over every minute detail. |
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" Really well put. You can tell them, but they can't understand it. I tried. They can't even understand that if they died in the first place, it wasn't the game's fault, but their own, somewhere. It is always much easier to blame anything else than oneself for failure. |
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" " You completely miss my point. :) AR in this game is a joke and diversity is dead in this game cause it forces you to play the meta. How? You may ask, since you don`t seem to understand much. If you want to play the whole game and enjoy it`s endgame content then you have no choice but to go full dps since you can still get one shot at random. Doesn`t matter if the map is T1 common, doesn`t matter if you have full def, nothing matters. And if you die, you lose......A LOT. If they remove the "you die once: lose 15% exp, lose all loot, lose map, lose mechanics" mechanic from the game, and let you use all 6 portals per map then I`d have no problem with being one shot. But since you can die quite often and to common creeps mostly and you lose EVERYTHING, just like that if you die ONCE, I will never agree with it. And don`t you think that I`m entitled to have a saying in the EA, since it`s the EA, and this IS a major problem for E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E.? And since I did spend well over 500$ on GGG, am I not entitled to have a saying? If we stop paying then what would happen to GGG, and to the game that I love? It`s early access and some problems NEED to be addressed for them to know about it. Some classes do need to be reballanced. Some are seriously overtuned, some are just dead. And since it`s EARLY ACCESS (maybe you missed that part), we HAVE to point out these discrepancies and faults in the game, since this is the whole point of why they made it early access.....to find out bugs, fixes, and reballances.......for when they release the finished game.....you know? Since it`s early access and problems need to be addressed.....should I repeat it one more time? In PoE1 there was a meta but you could map with whatever you wanted. Could you do all content? No. But it doesn`t matter because there were nice rewards on all maps. |
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