endgame citadels

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Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

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Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

the problem at hand, which I can empathize is that PoE2 basically says: Get gud you only got 1 try, but at the same time limits your ways to actually get better by not supplying enough tries you can fail. Due to that its hard to actually improve

You only need to do it once per lifetime though, figure out mechanic of each boss, and you fought most of them in the campaign where you had unlimited trials to figure out their mechanic. But sure, I think it would be better if, for example, we would have boss rush mode like in Undecember, where you fighting bosses, sometimes 2 or 3 bosses at the same time, this way you could sharp your skill to play against them and it would be very fun too, I think.

Wasn't talking about citadels, but rather bosses as a whole including breach/expedition/monolith/Ritual boss

If they want fights to be drawn out and punishing so players learn the mechanics rather than just skipping the mechanics using dmg, they should give the player more opportunity to learn the mechanics they want them to learn

Something to be said is that GGG has a limited pool of internal testers. The EA has given a lot more testers, and with that edge cases where people get a lot of luck, and cases where people have no luck, will be discovered more. These edge cases will then inform GGG about systems needing to be put in place to protect against atrocious luck while not making them too common for everyone else.

Citadels do seem pretty uncommon. I'm on t14 maps and haven't found one yet. There's also the issue that citadels encourage you to explore the map, but the juicing mechanics encourage you to fully clear an area around your towers.

Perhaps a drop or other mechanic which shows you the direction to a citadel. Say an Iron/Copper/Gold orb that reveals the direction that citadel or something, I don't know.

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Amorencinteroph#4321 wrote:

There's also the issue that citadels encourage you to explore the map, but the juicing mechanics encourage you to fully clear an area around your towers.

Why it is an issue? Just different goals to pursuit. Well, right now exploring doesn't give much, that's the issue.

It is kind of expected issue though, since they didn't have much time to work on endgame content yet.

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Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

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Devwind#3215 wrote:

Nope, it's not.

"Difficulty" in the context of boss fights is about how hard it is to learn the boss mechanics, and how much damage and hp the boss has.

If you can't figure out the mechanics or you gear cannot handle the flat damage, you would still fail the fight, not matter how many tries you have.

If it doesn't matter if you have one try or many, why do you need many then? It will be only tedious, dying over and over again, because if you died once - you will die again anyway, according to your logic.

Not my logic at all...

The point is to learn from dying. So giving players more tries is a good thing.

In the case of "If you can't figure out the mechanics or you gear cannot handle the flat damage, you would still fail the fight", my point is a hard fight would still be a hard fight even if you give players more tries, but that doesn't mean "it doesn't matter".

Take the Maven fight for example, if you can't do the memory game, you would fail even if you have 100 tries. And some people just can't do it, which is fine. But most people -- in order to beat it -- still needed the additional attempts to learn.

I can't even find it... They need to do something with its RNG location.
Roaming through T15-16. Nothing.

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Amorencinteroph#4321 wrote:

Something to be said is that GGG has a limited pool of internal testers. The EA has given a lot more testers, and with that edge cases where people get a lot of luck, and cases where people have no luck, will be discovered more. These edge cases will then inform GGG about systems needing to be put in place to protect against atrocious luck while not making them too common for everyone else.

Citadels do seem pretty uncommon. I'm on t14 maps and haven't found one yet. There's also the issue that citadels encourage you to explore the map, but the juicing mechanics encourage you to fully clear an area around your towers.

Perhaps a drop or other mechanic which shows you the direction to a citadel. Say an Iron/Copper/Gold orb that reveals the direction that citadel or something, I don't know.

That's the thing, nothing's made clear in this game, it expects all poe1 system to be understood by default, and new systems have no instructive info to help people make sense of them. Probably a lot of people are relying on using currency to buff their maps and using lost towers, but the fact is they don't matter anywhere near as much as having magic find on your gear.

I just crafted a helm with 39IIR in game, so now I have about 120% MF total. Since I no longer have max ele res (old helm has all 3 resists), quickly did a T5map as experiment. Yep, from one single blue T5 map with normal mods, I got 4 waystones T4,5,5,7 maps (2rares); 1 rare mob dropped 2 uniques and a rare map, another rare dropped 1 exalt and 2 regals. (Dunno how to upload images to posts but I have the screenshots) I can totally believe someone farming high tier maps with 300%+IIR getting divines left and right.

So you see, the time and effort and actual cost to buff your towers and maps don't compare at all with simply have more MF on your gear. It's not properly tested, I don't think the devs wanted top end farmers to obtain currency like this.

Whenever the time between attempts is long enough people will just treat it as if there is either a) no point to it or b) get enough dps to not have to learn the fight.

when you find a citadel take off all the boss nodes from the atlas tree. the fight will be a lot easier. you can also run the map on a blue t15 or even lower. wont make much difference in rewards. my friend run it like this and still got 2 expensive fragments at the end of the fight.