endgame citadels

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

i wouldnt even care if it took all of my xp every time i died in a citadel. we need more tries or they need to be more common. 1 and done after 7-10 days of searching is just no fun. Sure if you play 20 hours a day you might encounter these things more but if you have 2-3 hours a day its just not fun mapping every day with no variety.

It takes you from a variety endgame in poe1 in bossing, heist, delve, beasts, crafting, and all the other varietys of league mechanics you can combo. Into just mapping, flat out mapping, nothing else.

It is no surprise it is frustrating whenever you see something new and get rekt and dont even have the opportunity to learn from your mistake as you will likely not even remember what killed you by the time you get into another one.

I LOVED the delve league. That league I spent more time delving than mapping. Of all the things that are 'infinite', it would be more interesting than what we have now. Especially since they put rituals here, like did they even test this themselves? Bad spawn locations, tiny area being contradictory to the design philosophy of slower combat and much slower character movement, huge pack of mobs spawn instantly to one shot you. Nope, I don't think some of the devs actually tired high tier mapping themselves very much.

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Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

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z3mcneil#3966 wrote:

My take is that because GGG had to rush this EA release pre-Christmas, a lot of things were not properly tested. No one who has experienced this would think it's OK for a niche genre's most hardcore no-lifer to grind the endgame for 100+ hours to get access to a boss only to get one shot in 5 seconds and lose said access. This is not OK anywhere else in life. So clearly it's not tested properly, just like how right now there isn't a single person in the world that has reached lvl100, even those no lifers who have already put in 400-500hours into the game. Like how does that work with the 3 month season model? It doesn't.

It's either that, or it's the devs' way of telling us to stop wasting our time. Shrug/

its not, release was planned for november and they pushed it back until dec 6th.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2zus8ux73s

You're missing the point. Everybody who's here knows about the delayed launch date. The point is they were clearly not ready, and even with the delay, the product still isn't refined enough, especiallly the endgame. There's business term called MVP, minimum viable product, basically what you can get away with without pissing off people too much, which is a sad testament to the state of some industries. Clearly the beta was released as soon as it was deemed to have reached this MVP state, and they thought they'd do this before Christmas for commercial reasons.

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z3mcneil#3966 wrote:

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Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

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z3mcneil#3966 wrote:

My take is that because GGG had to rush this EA release pre-Christmas, a lot of things were not properly tested. No one who has experienced this would think it's OK for a niche genre's most hardcore no-lifer to grind the endgame for 100+ hours to get access to a boss only to get one shot in 5 seconds and lose said access. This is not OK anywhere else in life. So clearly it's not tested properly, just like how right now there isn't a single person in the world that has reached lvl100, even those no lifers who have already put in 400-500hours into the game. Like how does that work with the 3 month season model? It doesn't.

It's either that, or it's the devs' way of telling us to stop wasting our time. Shrug/

its not, release was planned for november and they pushed it back until dec 6th.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2zus8ux73s

You're missing the point. Everybody who's here knows about the delayed launch date. The point is they were clearly not ready, and even with the delay, the product still isn't refined enough, especiallly the endgame. There's business term called MVP, minimum viable product, basically what you can get away with without pissing off people too much, which is a sad testament to the state of some industries. Clearly the beta was released as soon as it was deemed to have reached this MVP state, and they thought they'd do this before Christmas for commercial reasons.

nah, they just looked at the blizzard campfire, did see that there were 99% complains about missing endgame, then they rushed to get endgame into the poe2 ea over finishing the acts and not having endgame. So yeah they implemented the current endgame in like 3 months. I am happy they did - Is it perfect? no, but its definitely a starting point and I would have quit 17 days ago if it wasn't for it.
So it is definitely rushed yeah, but I don't really think its that much about christmas, I think its more about keeping their promise about the EA release 100k's of Poe1 players were waiting for, or at least being close to the targeted release date.

And especially if you knew, saying "My take is that because GGG had to rush this EA release pre-Christmas" is just disgusting, because its just not the truth - GGG has been transparent on the EA progress

To find the third citadel you need 666 hours into mapping before it is generated.
You get one try, but half the map is obscured by large pillars so you can't see you character or enemies half the time.
The boss has ten different mechanics that oneshot you, and half of them is only telegraphed by an obscure soundbite that you need to decode in the span of 3 seconds to know which one it will be.

Get good boys.
Endgame is here.

Found 11 citadels so far in ~1.5k maps (still no iron citadel)

In gaming, much longer delays on much more expensive projects are common. Sometimes these delays are well communicated by the devs to the playerbase and more often than not, the playerbase understands. This is a paid beta, not a free one, so players ofc should have higher standards and not just 'be grateful we have a game'. Remember the mose expensive EA pack still costs several hundred dollars. A $200 million budget AAA game doesn't cost you more than 150 dollars with their collector's editions.

At the very least, certain things were not properly tested or given feedback on during alpha, or their QA team didn't do their job, or they listented too much to the 1% hardcore players/streamers/no lifers and sorta forgot about the majority of casual players. Like the ascendancy trials, like Blood Mage being fundamentally broken, like melee combat in general, like random one shots in maps, like magic find ruining the economy. These things feel really bad even to people who have played video games their entire lives and are familiar with the genre, and each one can be a dealbreaker to casuals. Not a good idea when you're trying to reach a wider audience.

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Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

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Devwind#3215 wrote:

Is it that hard to understand that this has nothing to do with the difficulty?
He is not asking to make the boss easier, he just needs more than ONE try

Having only one try is about difficulty.

Too low chance to find citadel is not.

Nope, it's not.

"Difficulty" in the context of boss fights is about how hard it is to learn the boss mechanics, and how much damage and hp the boss has.

If you can't figure out the mechanics or you gear cannot handle the flat damage, you would still fail the fight, not matter how many tries you have.

Adding padded time between each attempt doesn't not inherently make the fight itself more "difficult", it just makes it more tedious/scarce. Whether it's 50 hours or 20 minutes, it doesn't matter, it's just a bad design.

They know this, since they already have a checkpoint before each boss during the campaign. They just have to fix it for the endgame bosses.

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Devwind#3215 wrote:

Nope, it's not.

"Difficulty" in the context of boss fights is about how hard it is to learn the boss mechanics, and how much damage and hp the boss has.

If you can't figure out the mechanics or you gear cannot handle the flat damage, you would still fail the fight, not matter how many tries you have.

If it doesn't matter if you have one try or many, why do you need many then? It will be only tedious, dying over and over again, because if you died once - you will die again anyway, according to your logic.

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Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

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Devwind#3215 wrote:

Nope, it's not.

"Difficulty" in the context of boss fights is about how hard it is to learn the boss mechanics, and how much damage and hp the boss has.

If you can't figure out the mechanics or you gear cannot handle the flat damage, you would still fail the fight, not matter how many tries you have.

If it doesn't matter if you have one try or many, why would you need many then?

the problem at hand, which I can empathize is that PoE2 basically says: Get gud you only got 1 try, but at the same time limits your ways to actually get better by not supplying enough tries you can fail. Due to that its hard to actually improve, which is also why I and many others just opt to play builds which delete bosses so they cannot use their mechanics, that way we can beat the content without having to deal with the mechanics we cannot learn due to limited access.

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Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

the problem at hand, which I can empathize is that PoE2 basically says: Get gud you only got 1 try, but at the same time limits your ways to actually get better by not supplying enough tries you can fail. Due to that its hard to actually improve

You only need to do it once per lifetime though, figure out mechanic of each boss, and you fought most of them in the campaign where you had unlimited trials to figure out their mechanic. But sure, I think it would be better if, for example, we would have boss rush mode like in Undecember, where you fighting bosses, sometimes 2 or 3 bosses at the same time, this way you could sharp your skill to play against them and it would be very fun too, I think.