Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

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I also can't see how removing the XP penalty would help you in any way. It seems to me like you situation would just stay exactly the same. Like I said, since you already explode the entire screen with one attack, as you said, a bit more damage from maybe 5 or 10 levels more would not do anything. And if you want defensive points, you would be free to respec some damage nodes to defense nodes, since you clearly have enough damage.

To me it sounds like you are annoyed by dying and want to vent.

So in my particular case how does the EXP penalty help? What message does it sent?

I feel certainly ready to beat this content. As everything basically dies. And yes, I could go more on defences. That's what I am about to do with the next points. I already wasted so much gold on respec since there is not much else to do with it. But what ever value I toss around, it doesn't have a great effect. The items are what causing the real effect. But I can't farm them in a reasonable way. And while playing T3 - T6 there are still way to much crap items and way to less base items to craft with. So far I had 3 great items. One I sold after crafting because it had 2 awesome T9 rolls for a caster build and 2 I use myself. Boots and shield. And yes, I can keep repeating this cycle till I find the rest of the items just to repeat it on the very next low map that is outgeared.

Let me show you an example with some numbers ... kind of feels like using fingerpaint here:

Being lv 75 grinding Tier 3-5 maps because 6-8 is way to hard. I grind these maps until I can play 6-8 maps. That's around lv 80 (depending on the drop chance and crafting of good items) Then I reach a point where I play T6-8 maps while being lv 80 with 2.600HP - fully outgeared but I can't go any higher because dying on tier 9-11 is a thing again. So I stay with Tier 6-8 until I upgraded my entire set and reaching lv 85/88 and being able to run T9-11 maps without dying. But at this point I am again totally outgeared for T9-11 and Tier 12-14 would be interesting but I can't even attempt it anymore because at this point I lose days worth of time.

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I think you are over exaggerating. I am currently level 87. When I die it takes me maybe 2 maps to get the lost XP back.

While I don't lose much EXP on lv 70-80 the amount I lose on 80+ increased and the time to get this amount back increased as well.

If you need 2 maps to get 10% EXP from 87>88 how comes that 79-80 just gave me 3-5% per map. Sure the map rarity, the monster amount and maybe even the EXP stat can have a huge impact but running 2 maps to get 10% would be you level from 87 to 88 in like 4-5 hours. Hence the question why you are still lv 87 and not 95+ so far? Tablets? EXP Maps? Rare Maps? You should always remember that not every player has the equal knowledge about the game. To be able to figure something out, I first need to know that there is such a option. And PoE doesn't do a great job in explaining mechanics.

Anyway... my point is that - while the EXP impact is low between 70 and 80 it gets way way worse after that and even ridiculous on 90+ and borderline stupid on lv 95+

I don't say I want to force my way there. But while on this way (since that's the essence of the game, right = improving your character) I get soft locked because one of the parts that can improve it is virtually blocked. And again: I don't claim that I want to run Tier 15 maps... I just want to be able to run something slightly more engaging than a map that can be played using auto attack only.

And by improving I also refer to enemy mechanics. The more mods I have, the more complex it gets the more careful I have to play to adept to these mods. But I simply can't attempt to try how speed modifier X oder damage modifier Y effects my build because I don't even dare to make my maps Rare unless the blue stats both doesn't affect enemy damage or even worst crit... crit would likely be always exchanged even without EXP loss.

So tell me again how I improve my character? By spending just enough time to always stay outgeared for the content I attempt?

Dude... I have a fulltime job and a family and a house that needs occasional work. 1-2 hours a day on a typical work day are possible for me but that's it... that's 3-6 maps depending on the fact how often I trade or do other things. Losing 10% of the EXP bar on lv 90 means a good week of EXP grind. for me.... (yes, depending on the atlas modifications) But to use those, you have to find and craft those first.

Yes, while grinding the EXP back I farm new items but the chance on dying again and loosing EXP again still persist. Hence the fact that I feel force to play only on outgeared content. -.-*

It can take 10 times as long to level up... I wouldn't care at all. I just don't want to lose progress I've done already. I would prefer to lose a random items from my Inventory (not character gear) but from the inventory rather than losing the EXP. That's how serious I am about it. I just don't want to lose the progress I made for trying out my character limits. After all that would make more sense... You die and drop something rather than "You die and lose EXP" And If I have a stack of Exalted I can teleport back, store them, and go back in. Costs me a portal but it's worth it to secure my treasure.

That's what I mean. I think, think is the imperative word here, that the snake projectile only creates a ground effect that deals the damage. Not the projectile itself. If my assumption is correct, that would mean it is not blockable.

Do they? I wouldn't say so because it's visually not noticeable. I talk about the enemy type that has 2 snakes coming from their shoulders shooting darts. I am 100% certain the projectile can be fully blocked. Tested this several times in the Story because they were the very reason I played my first high level character in PoE 1 as a CI build. If they have a ground effect, my mistake and It correct this post. But I am sure they don't. I will watch this really closely next time I see them.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

If maps are not a challenge they should be removed from the game.
Just leave in the bosses.

If you are happy grinding through content semi-AFK for hundreds of maps at a time, great. Most players aren't. They will find another game, or find ways to bypass it. Maybe the devs will bypass it for them.

Sorry, but then you simply have the wrong game. Grinding maps for days/weeks is literally the core endgame loop of PoE 1 and PoE 2.

You don't get it, do you? I LOVE TO GRIND THE SH*T OUT OF THE GAME!!! But not on content that I can finish using common attack on my build. And I tell you I can, because I did this... it just takes ages and a lot of dodge and shield usage. I want the feeling of risking a valuable map with awesome stats on it rather the risk of EXP.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Sorry, but then you simply have the wrong game. Grinding maps for days/weeks is literally the core endgame loop of PoE 1 and PoE 2.

None of us know what the core endgame loop of PoE 2 is going to be yet. The game's only been out a month and is in Early Access.

That said, I did watch the dev interviews and don't recall anyone bragging about players grinding through hundreds of maps with no challenge. I do remember them talking about all the challenging maps you can find, though.

TIL: a large number of people think that the right way to play the game is at the lowest possible difficulty where you will never die. Hilarious that they also think that’s fun and worth their time investment. Stupid me, I always thought that games (of every variety, including sports, card games, etc) are universally made more enjoyable when they do a good job at pushing you to the hardest content you can succeed in, not the hardest content you can’t fail in.

I should go play basketball against kindergartners some time. Maybe the world has changed and it actually does feel good to win with no challenge.

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maquino85#7657 wrote:

TIL: a large number of people think that the right way to play the game is at the lowest possible difficulty where you will never die. Hilarious that they also think that’s fun and worth their time investment. Stupid me, I always thought that games (of every variety, including sports, card games, etc) are universally made more enjoyable when they do a good job at pushing you to the hardest content you can succeed in, not the hardest content you can’t fail in.

I should go play basketball against kindergartners some time. Maybe the world has changed and it actually does feel good to win with no challenge.

EXACTLY!!!

Yes, I know I'll be grinding hundreds of maps over time. But if I don't feel challenged - as in, if I lose focus, or make a mistake, or pull too many mobs, I might ACTUALLY DIE, then why I am I spending hours doing this?

This BS with "sending a message" to the player: THOU SHALT NOT ATTEMPT MAPS YOU MIGHT NOT SUCCEED!!!

Screw that noise! I want to always be on the brink of death. And when I die, I want to be able to brush myself off, and jump right back into the fight. Not need to spend time in a "penalty box" grinding back lost XP.

If at first you don't succeed, Die, Die, Again! Not: Grind until you trivialize the challenge.

The campaign is awesome. Why? Because I've died a lot. And I've gone back and killed what killed me.

Imagine if the campaign had the XP death penalty. How many people do you think would still be playing?

If when they got to the executioner, they lost 15% XP every time they died? These are bosses you should be expected to die to at least a couple times on before you learn the mechanics. Why should that expectation change at endgame?

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Sorry, but then you simply have the wrong game. Grinding maps for days/weeks is literally the core endgame loop of PoE 1 and PoE 2.

None of us know what the core endgame loop of PoE 2 is going to be yet. The game's only been out a month and is in Early Access.

That said, I did watch the dev interviews and don't recall anyone bragging about players grinding through hundreds of maps with no challenge. I do remember them talking about all the challenging maps you can find, though.

I'd like to see one of the devs here with an official statement about this topic and the opinions and facts presented.

I don't believe for a second the design to play lower level outgeared maps is intended as it is. If so, the Quest with the Maps should start with 100 Tier 1 maps and once half way is finished the 2nd quests comes up 200 Tier 2 Maps and so on. Meaning: if you can't finish the quest in Tier 2 you can still go back and finish it in tier 1.

So for everyone here: Don't try to sell us your opinion and preferred way to play as fact and reason it is designed like this unless you are from GGG and can give an official statement. Other than that: it's your personal opinion and should be reflected as such. As far as I can tell I usually make it clear that this or that is my own thought. I do not seriously dare to claim I know why the are doing this or that.

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I should go play basketball against kindergartners some time. Maybe the world has changed and it actually does feel good to win with no challenge.

just lol :-D love it...

We'll all be damned if they cave in and listen to your ridiculous complaints, making POE2 just another easy ARPG.

We finally have a worthy successor to Diablo 2 after 20 years. POE2 will be the greatest ARPG of all time, only threatened by all of these entitled gamers believing that it should all be dumbed down for their sakes.

Removing the 1 death per map OR XP penalty will devastate the game in a way that it won't recover from. Deaths will be a minor nuisance and everyone will be lvl 99 in no time.

It could effectively kill the game because of the unforeseen consequences. You got the greatest ARPG of all time already and there's still tons of content missing. We all lucked out hugely with this game - Be content and happy in knowing that.

Merry christmas

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BigInJapan#9720 wrote:

We'll all be damned if they cave in and listen to your ridiculous complaints, making POE2 just another easy ARPG.

We finally have a worthy successor to Diablo 2 after 20 years. POE2 will be the greatest ARPG of all time, only threatened by all of these entitled gamers believing that it should all be dumbed down for their sakes.

Removing the 1 death per map OR XP penalty will devastate the game in a way that it won't recover from. Deaths will be a minor nuisance and everyone will be lvl 99 in no time.

It could effectively kill the game because of the unforeseen consequences. You got the greatest ARPG of all time already and there's still tons of content missing. We all lucked out hugely with this game - Be content and happy in knowing that.

Merry christmas

lol just another troll... If you believe what you just wrote, then this discussion makes no sense for you. If you really believe paying 10% EXP is the reason why only 2-3% of the player are lv 100, the mistake is with you. :-D there won't be much more player lv 100. But people are less frustrated on the way before they stop for other reasons. There is only a very little number of people left that stick to a game for several 100 or 1000 hours.

Maybe you should ask GGG to implement Character equipment drop on death. Every time you die you have a 80% chance to drop one of the items equipped. IT's the best ARGP game out there and no other should even try to compete with it... Just my opinion. ^^

While we are on it: 10% EXP loss per day unless you pay at least 1 € without getting something in return. You know... for the sense of accomplishment ^^

Stop trolling or simple don't comment.

Why not a change to the death in endgame.

EXP is only given for completing the map not killing mobs in the map, if you die you lose the map, items and exp gained in that map.

The EXP loss doesn't need to be in the rest of the game. It serves no real purpose except artificially slowing down progression.

Yes, if you die you should look at why you died and do better, learn the mechanics, upgrade gear or change your setup, there's no real reason to losing a chunk of EXP, you can't progress until you get stronger anyway.

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LordTad#4634 wrote:

Why not a change to the death in endgame.

EXP is only given for completing the map not killing mobs in the map, if you die you lose the map, items and exp gained in that map.

The EXP loss doesn't need to be in the rest of the game. It serves no real purpose except artificially slowing down progression.

Yes, if you die you should look at why you died and do better, learn the mechanics, upgrade gear or change your setup, there's no real reason to losing a chunk of EXP, you can't progress until you get stronger anyway.

This!

I would take a lot of different ways... I just don't want to lose EXP.

Even if my character would be the awesome never die build. I don't want EXP loss because at some point I create another Character that might die more often... And I hate the thought that this will come at some point.

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BigInJapan#9720 wrote:

We'll all be damned if they cave in and listen to your ridiculous complaints, making POE2 just another easy ARPG.

We finally have a worthy successor to Diablo 2 after 20 years. POE2 will be the greatest ARPG of all time, only threatened by all of these entitled gamers believing that it should all be dumbed down for their sakes.

Removing the 1 death per map OR XP penalty will devastate the game in a way that it won't recover from. Deaths will be a minor nuisance and everyone will be lvl 99 in no time.

It could effectively kill the game because of the unforeseen consequences. You got the greatest ARPG of all time already and there's still tons of content missing. We all lucked out hugely with this game - Be content and happy in knowing that.

Merry christmas

Look



In a game like chess, nobody complains when your rating goes down because you lost. That's because at no point was losing due to randomness. It's 100% control and 100% accountability.

In Path of Exile 2, this is far from the case:

Gear Control: You don't control the gear you have on.

Resistances: You can't control your resistances.

Respawning Mobs: You can't really control your level due to constantly respawning mobs.

Visibility Issues: Many visual obstacles block the player's view, leading to unexpected deaths.

Map Overlay: Playing with the map overlay open is common due to poor path visibility. This limits visibility for things like on-death explosions, making them common and punishing.

When a death is not "fair" because of these factors, the player feels cheated. They lose the opportunity to finish the map, lose experience, lose loot on the ground, and often have no idea what happened to them. Even if they did, there's no means to fix it as all crafting is RNG.

If the answer is to use trade, don't. Trade cannot ever be the solution to addressing poor league mechanics.

If you can't guarantee fairness or at least consistency, then there should be no penalties. The game becomes more a game of chance like roulette and less like chess, at which point "get gud" really stops applying.

I would eliminate some RNG.
Have crafting able to apply resistances in a deliberate way that can be redone at will while keeping the base item. Ie craft Fire resist , and later overwrite it with cold resist that would be the repacable rune slot route.

Also replace ground effect with debuffs that can amplify other sources of damage but never inflict damage. No exploding boss who died on a flower so you can't see the grenade it left when it died, or having ground effect covered by Loot lables or overlay.