Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

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mahfightmoney#5093 wrote:

We had the same discussion pop up monthly for PoE 1 for a decade, lets do it again boys!

The people who despise the 10% exp loss on death are most likely new to the game, you gotta cut them a little slack. They dont understand like some of us with 3k + hours that dying at level 75 doesnt mean jack shit, 75-76 is like 3 tier 10 maps. If you are dying at this level range, you need to worry much more about gearing more so than your next level up. I have not played enough to know the xp curve in PoE 2, but if its anything like PoE 1, deaths below level 90 arent the end of the world, and morseo, thinking your build is going to wildly change with those last handful of points, you are painfully misinformed.

Death meant something in PoE 1 for the games first 4-5 years, then GGG slowly but surely created ways to level 1-100 in a days time. Dying at level 99 once meant days of grinding down the drain, now its just an extra breach to run.

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B1tchFight#1281 wrote:

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mahfightmoney#5093 wrote:

We had the same discussion pop up monthly for PoE 1 for a decade, lets do it again boys!

The people who despise the 10% exp loss on death are most likely new to the game, you gotta cut them a little slack. They dont understand like some of us with 3k + hours that dying at level 75 doesnt mean jack shit, 75-76 is like 3 tier 10 maps. If you are dying at this level range, you need to worry much more about gearing more so than your next level up. I have not played enough to know the xp curve in PoE 2, but if its anything like PoE 1, deaths below level 90 arent the end of the world, and morseo, thinking your build is going to wildly change with those last handful of points, you are painfully misinformed.

Death meant something in PoE 1 for the games first 4-5 years, then GGG slowly but surely created ways to level 1-100 in a days time. Dying at level 99 once meant days of grinding down the drain, now its just an extra breach to run.

We are not talking about PoE 1 ... back in PoE 1 you could always argue that a punishment had to exist.

Now I say we have like 10 punishments. I am tired of counting them for every single one here who's not reading or refused to accept said word.

Why keep the EXP loss in and add new punishment and call this "normal" while asking to remove one of the factors is called "you want to change the entire baseline of the game" ... it makes no sense.

And again: It's not about reaching level 100. It never was... And you can't die your way up to Lv 100 because you don't have the maps available for that. So it's not an argument to say "EXP Loss prevents people from dying in content they are not fit for"

Why are all these veteran gamers always and only comment from their perspektive like you give a sh*t about other people.

Less than 10% of the entire amount of player starting a character will pass lv 90. Less then 2% will hit lv 100.

Does anyone here really believe that removing the EXP loss will change either value by more than 10%? Most people stop way before this threshold anyway for other reasons. EXP takes to long in general, playing other games, no time to continue and so on.

All you do by removing the EXP loss is the not make people angry who are emotionally affected by losing part of their progress.

I am ready to invest a map, an atlas mod and orbs for crafting a map... I don't feel the neat to invest 10% EXP for trying how far I can get.

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B1tchFight#1281 wrote:

And again: It's not about reaching level 100. It never was... And you can't die your way up to Lv 100 because you don't have the maps available for that. So it's not an argument to say "EXP Loss prevents people from dying in content they are not fit for"

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B1tchFight#1281 wrote:

All you do by removing the EXP loss is the not make people angry who are emotionally affected by losing part of their progress.

I am ready to invest a map, an atlas mod and orbs for crafting a map... I don't feel the neat to invest 10% EXP for trying how far I can get.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Ok, I am weak, I will try one last time. There are some simple facts in this game.

In PoE the player has 100% control over the difficulty they choose to play. This can be done by selecting the waystone/map tier they use, the mods they roll on them the precursor tablets they use and the additional content they attempt during a map.

Because of this flexibility in difficulty, there is never a real wall a player can hit. If they "hit a wall" it is simply a fictional wall because the player is not willing to forfeit potential better loot from higher difficulties and therefor not reducing the difficulty.

The game always offers you a path to improve your character. If you keep dying over and over again during the core endgame loop, mapping, the solution would be to decrease the difficulty, farm currency/items in easier content and improve the character. This is the natural progression of a game like PoE. Like stated before, many players are just not willing to do this. But that is not on the game. This is their decision. The XP penalty on death is one of the tools the game uses to show players the best and easiest way how not to "hit a wall". Decrease difficulty. Because most players would like to earn XP the logical train of thought would be "Here I cannot earn XP so I decrease the difficulty to earn XP". Some players are just not willing to earn a bit less XP, therefor stick to higher difficulties, keep dying and lose XP instead.

The other scenario is dying from time to time due to bugs or unfair, not yet patched, one shots. This is early access and bugs are to be expected. But if your build is solid in general, then this should not be happening too often. Therefor the death penalty should not have that big of an influence in this case. Regarding unfair one shots. GGG has already begun to address these and is surely trying to improve in that area. So this should not be a regular thing in the future.

The death penalty is mostly effecting players who keep dying over and over again during mapping/farming. This is the game trying to tell the player that the character is not yet ready for that difficulty. Like stated before, exceptional one shots or unlucky deaths may occur from time to time but their effect will be very limited. But if dying is the rule then the player simply chose a difficulty that is too high for the character in the current state. In this situation the player has two choices. Either stick with the higher difficulty and run into a wall on purpose for the small chance of slightly better loot at the cost of XP. Or reduce the difficulty and farm currency/items to improve the character with slightly lower drop chances but overall quicker, due to not dying, and the additional benefit of earning XP.

Builds also have a big influence on the difficulty of content the character can run easily. Some builds are stronger/tankier/easier than others. So called Meta builds are usually very strong and players using them will be able to do higher difficulty maps sooner. If a player wants to play their own build or find their own way, that is totally fine. Most of those players want to try to improve their character themself and overcome obstacles they face. This is an additional difficulty a player chooses to add. Like playing SSF. In this case chances are higher that the player may have to take a step back in difficulty from time to time. If a player has the priority to just rush to the highest difficulty maps as soon as possible, sticking to meta builds is highly recommended. These builds are usually very well tested and already refined.

Losing XP is a choice. Hitting a wall is a choice. Whatever you do and however you want to play the game is up to you. Everything is your choice. Why complain about your own choices?

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yningunay#5135 wrote:

In my opinion you´re wrong in your assumptions about difficulty and progression being entirely controlled by the player regardless if you like the current death penalty or not.
With the current penalty systems in place players will reach a point with no natural progression when they outlevel the content their build can comfortably complete a lot - but will die too often in appropriately leveled content to progress in level.

Progression is then entirely controlled by rgn of drops/crafting - which i wouldn´t label as within a players ability to control to 100%. Thats the just nature of rgn.

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Samain#6430 wrote:

If GGG insists so much on having a 15% experience penalty, why not simply leave it at 5% instead? Players would enjoy the game more, and those hardcore fans craving punishment could just intentionally die two more times every time they fall to rack up their precious 15%. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? Yet that’s essentially the logic being defended by those arguing in favor of these harsh penalties.

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Samain#6430 wrote:

The logic behind defending harsh penalties like the 15% XP loss doesn’t stem from any genuine benefit to the gameplay experience. It’s not because it adds meaningful challenge or depth to the game. Instead, it’s rooted in a mindset where the satisfaction comes from knowing someone else is worse off than you. The argument isn’t about improving the game or creating a more engaging experience—it’s about preference for schadenfreude, the pleasure derived from someone else’s suffering.

This attitude reflects a fundamental problem within certain segments of the community. For some players, the appeal of Path of Exile isn’t the skill it demands or the strategy it encourages but the feeling of superiority over others who struggle more. If you’re not as frustrated or punished as they are, they feel like the experience is being “diluted.”


EVE Online is a perfect example of a game that has clung to outdated, punitive design philosophies for over 21 years. Much like Path of Exile, its systems were less about fostering a challenging or rewarding experience and more about creating barriers that alienated new players. The game built its reputation on its hardcore, unforgiving nature, but this approach led to a steady decline in the player base as it failed to adapt to modern expectations.

It wasn’t until a new company acquired the game and implemented a proper tutorial system that EVE Online began to see growth again. The introduction of these onboarding features made the game more accessible, and for the first time in years, the game experienced an influx of new players. This change highlights how much potential had been wasted by sticking to outdated philosophies that prioritized punishing players over engaging them.