Please consider making SSF fully separated mode

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

You can literally do this. Right now. SSF *IS* its own mode.

You're missing the point.

The game's loot is currently balanced around having trade. To provide an enjoyable gameplay experience, SSF needs to have much higher drop rates to facilitate crafting. Getting 1-2 Exalted Orbs or maybe even less per Act is not a good experience.

The point is that SSF should be balanced separately.

If you can't grasp the idea of SSF having its own balancing, try imagine if the game doesn't have group scaling. Mob power and difficulty are all balanced for 4-player groups. And then there's a Solo mode where you cannot group up. But in that mode, everything is still tuned for 4-player groups. People then ask the Solo mode to be made a full separate mode with solo balancing, and someone comes over to point out "Solo mode is already its own mode", completely missing the point.

Playing solo vs playing in a group is a player choice, and GGG caters to both by providing mob scaling.

Playing SSF vs playing trading is a player choice, yet GGG arbitrarily decides SSF should be considered a "challenge mode" and refuse to provide drop rate scaling.

I don't know why people who enjoy trading are so concerned about non-trading players having more fun, always needing to come out and refute it. It's not like SSF geting better drop rates affects trading players at all.

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kumogakure#7381 wrote:

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

You can literally do this. Right now. SSF *IS* its own mode.

You're missing the point.

The game's loot is currently balanced around having trade. To provide an enjoyable gameplay experience, SSF needs to have much higher drop rates to facilitate crafting. Getting 1-2 Exalted Orbs or maybe even less per Act is not a good experience.

The point is that SSF should be balanced separately.

If you can't grasp the idea of SSF having its own balancing, try imagine if the game doesn't have group scaling. Mob power and difficulty are all balanced for 4-player groups. And then there's a Solo mode where you cannot group up. But in that mode, everything is still tuned for 4-player groups. People then ask the Solo mode to be made a full separate mode with solo balancing, and someone comes over to point out "Solo mode is already its own mode", completely missing the point.

Playing solo vs playing in a group is a player choice, and GGG caters to both by providing mob scaling.

Playing SSF vs playing trading is a player choice, yet GGG arbitrarily decides SSF should be considered a "challenge mode" and refuse to provide drop rate scaling.

I don't know why people who enjoy trading are so concerned about non-trading players having more fun, always needing to come out and refute it. It's not like SSF geting better drop rates affects trading players at all.

I'm actually not the one missing the point, you're the one making a number of assumptions that are incredibly biased towards trying to drive your own point.

First off, let's get something clear here, i'm not one of the "people who enjoy trading, concerned about non-trading players having fun", nor am i a "trade player unaffected by SSF changes". I've been SSF in POE1 before the mode was officially implemented, and i've been SSF in poe2 since i've had access, and enjoyed myself on both. Do not try to paint this as a "you're a trade player, that's why you hate this idea" kind of argument. I have been SSF for ages. Don't make assumptions.

Second, you again make a bad assumption that "drops are balanced around trade". Right now, drops aren't 'balanced' at all. It's one of many things that will be improved on, since i mean hell, not all the weapons are even implemented. Do you know what their code calls for if a flail is expected to drop, but they don't have them turned on in game yet? Do you know if that's a thing? Do you know if there's other items in the code which are being iterated on but not set as an avaliable drop, thus creating an instance of "Something should have dropped here, but didn't"? No, you don't. You're working under the assumption that "The current system is the final product, and drops are hard to come by, therefore the change needs to happen to SSF in order to make SSF viable to play this final product". No. This is incorrect and based on the mistaken belief that this is the expected game state, and this is the level of loot that will be dropping with everything avaliable. Stop making the assumptions.

Third, SSF being a "challenge mode" wasn't a whim just picked out of the air by GGG. The idea was a fairly popular self-imposed challenge created by the playerbase themselves, in which GGG enjoyed the idea. People were big to claim "This is an SSF character and i got all this crazy gear", to which one of the responses at that time was "bullshit, you traded, you cheated.", a claim that couldn't be proven as false before SSF mode came into existance. GGG went out and did players a favor making the mode, one that enforced the rules as long as you were in it, making it so 'cheating' wasn't possible; ssf players were solo, and every item they found was self-found, guaranteed. Because even if you wanted to cheat, it wasn't possible to do so without migrating the character to trade league. So no, it wasn't a 'arbitray' decision to make it a 'challenge mode', it was a response to the requests people had to KEEP it as a challenge mode.

So with that out of the way, can we stop making really stupid assumptions about balance, and can we stop trying to rewrite history and paint this as some sort of conspiracy against you getting loot, just to argue for dumbing down a mode that's very simple by design, whether you want it to be or not? Because this entire thing is incredibly annoyoing to have people argue that "the game needs ssf to have more loot" when in reality you just want more loot in general, and it's not an ssf problem, it's an ego issue where you believe you're entitled to get X amount of loot in Y time.

Yea LE did this and it was fricken great. Picking SSF or trade modes for the endgame was amazing.

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Victini#7730 wrote:

so you want to play single player get better drop rates and not interact with the community... hmm got it why dont you go play skyrim or something

I mean yea, when you intentionally make the main progression mechanic of your game bad this is the kind of feedback you get.

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Quilltacular#3436 wrote:

These exist as private leagues in PoE1 and likely will come to PoE2 at some point in the future

No....it doesn't. The only adjustments you can make in private leagues is making the game harder. The suggestion is to make a TRULY ssf mode balanced around actual self-found odds, rather than trade-balanced odds. This currently does not exist in any shape or form across all of PoE.

I've wanted this since the beta of PoE 1. I hate that choosing a specific mode to play by myself HAS to be a harder experience, when it really should be easier. Why be stingy with the drops when you don't have to worry about "value"?

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

I'm actually not the one missing the point, you're the one making a number of assumptions that are incredibly biased towards trying to drive your own point.

Everything that has been said are NOT assumptions: they are explicitly stated facts by the developers of PoE. It wasn't even a one-off buried interview statement, multiple developers across the years have repeatedly described exactly how and why drops are balanced around the trade economy and thus are quite severe.

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Yazka#2210 wrote:

Trade league is a legit (and default) way to play but I personally do not enjoy trading at all. Dropping or crafting the weapon you've been looking for is extremely rewarding but buying the same is... not. But as it stands now, most of the time your options are to trade or get by without.

I understand that adjusting drop rates in normal mode is challenging and needs to be done carefully in order to not nuke the economy. Changing them in SSF would be simpler but changing SSF is changing normal since the items would bleed into trade.

I propose doing a full separation between trade and SSF so that it wouldn't be possible to transfer from SSF to trade or vice versa. After that, adjust drop rates of currency/items or affix balance to increase the chance of higher tier mods. Or all of the above. The goal would be to make reaching late game more achievable for more builds. It doesn't need to be fast but currently it's possible only by pretty extreme time commitment.

This way, SSF wouldn't be a self-imposed challenge mode you can opt out of at later point but a different gearing method. And it would preserve trade league as it is currently and maybe serve as a test bed for possible future changes on trade leagues too.

ps. I undestand that some do clear everything in POE1 and at least soon POE2 in SSF HC ruthless or whatnot but game and droprates are pretty clearly balanced with trading option in mind.

PPS. This applies to both POE1 and POE2. But I put this on POE2 feedback since trying brave new things might be easier in early access. And POE2 can be pretty painful as it stands without trading since you are very gear bound when RNGeesus doesn't shine on you.

BuT SSF Is FiNe As It Is.

All the nolifer infernalists on HCSSF ladder is a solid proof of that, nah?

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

I'm actually not the one missing the point, you're the one making a number of assumptions that are incredibly biased towards trying to drive your own point.

Everything that has been said are NOT assumptions: they are explicitly stated facts by the developers of PoE. It wasn't even a one-off buried interview statement, multiple developers across the years have repeatedly described exactly how and why drops are balanced around the trade economy and thus are quite severe.

Congratulations on missing the part where i mentioned you're judging whether or not ssf is viable based on the first look of beta access of an unfinished game and deciding "it's too much, better change SSF to have more loot or it's not feasable"

Like, you're jumping the gun completely because you're assuming this is the finished product, and basing the decisions you'd like to see going forward on speculation of this being the standard. It's just not, get a grip.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

the devs have said that traders are a minority and the minority who trade only trade 2-5 times in a league, which has very very little impact lets be honest.

They also said a very small minority had ever beaten shaper. So what? High level endgame is all about trade, and for those who don't get there, 2-5 times in a league can easily be the difference between beating the acts and being softlocked in act 1 cruel.

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xenigmatica#6388 wrote:

Congratulations on missing the part where i mentioned you're judging whether or not ssf is viable based on the first look of beta access of an unfinished game and deciding "it's too much, better change SSF to have more loot or it's not feasable"

Like, you're jumping the gun completely because you're assuming this is the finished product, and basing the decisions you'd like to see going forward on speculation of this being the standard. It's just not, get a grip.

You can't be serious....jumping the gun? 12 years of development and word for word statements from the developers across the years is not "jumping the gun" or making assumptions. It is the expected pattern of development while the game continues to be centered around trade. The reasoning behind how they balanced PoE 1 across its entire lifetime hasn't just gone away, nor would any reasonable person "assume" otherwise.

The one making unfounded assumptions is you, completely contrary to over a decade of proof and statements from the developers of the game we are currently playing. Hence.....the existence of this thread. And, in case you didn't know, one of the most common suggestions and requests across the entire lifetime of PoE 1 as well.

I mean....I guess technically its an assumption: but it is one based on tons of historical evidence, first hand accounts and plans, and knowledge of the game. Meanwhile, you describe a scenario that has NEVER existed nor has ever been described by the developers.

If we are to "assume" that everything will be tradeable (a very very safe assumption), there is no reason NOT to assume that drop rates and all facets of gameplay will be again centered around trade.