Evasion not counting towards honor in trial?

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If it isn't functioning like that, then yeah, shit's fucked.

The argument itself strayed WAY from where i really wanted it to. I could care less about EHP and the like. My main argument for why evasion should give honor is simply this...

1) GGG states Evasion, Energy Shield and Armor are defenses
2) Energy Shield gives you increased honor
3) SO evasion also being a defense should give you honor

For simplicity sake, I'm going to use made up simple numbers. If both builds hit traps on accident... both builds have 75% res and 75% honor resist. Evasion build has 1.5k honor(What i actually had the other night without stacking 70+% increased max honor from relics), ES build has 4-5k (What my buddy had pre-relics) . If the trap does 2k honor, Evasion build loses trial, ES build keeps going, probably restores his honor and has a buffer.

Why should i be punished for choosing an evasion build and having substantially less honor when there are things in the trial that don't care about life/evasion/energy shield/armor?

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Bornforexile#6932 wrote:

The argument itself strayed WAY from where i really wanted it to. I could care less about EHP and the like. My main argument for why evasion should give honor is simply this...

1) GGG states Evasion, Energy Shield and Armor are defenses
2) Energy Shield gives you increased honor
3) SO evasion also being a defense should give you honor

For simplicity sake, I'm going to use made up simple numbers. If both builds hit traps on accident... both builds have 75% res and 75% honor resist. Evasion build has 1.5k honor(What i actually had the other night without stacking 70+% increased max honor from relics), ES build has 4-5k (What my buddy had pre-relics) . If the trap does 2k honor, Evasion build loses trial, ES build keeps going, probably restores his honor and has a buffer.

Why should i be punished for choosing an evasion build and having substantially less honor when there are things in the trial that don't care about life/evasion/energy shield/armor?

What you're still missing is that ES doesn't give honor because it's a defense, it gives honor because it's literally a health pool.

If ES didn't give honor, anyone who took Chaos Inoculation would have 1 honor for the entire trial.

Think, please.

Why should evasion double dip but nothing else? What about all of the times when an ES build takes a hit and an evasion build avoids it?

This is possibly the worst argument I’ve ever seen. Sanctum in general is garbage, but this makes no sense.

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1) GGG states Evasion, Energy Shield and Armor are defenses
2) Energy Shield gives you increased honor
3) SO evasion also being a defense should give you honor

1) Life is red
2) Life gives you honour
3) Anything else red should give you honour

This kind if reasoning rarely works.

As has been stated over and over the reason ES gives honour is not because it is a defence it is because it is part of your health pool.

If the reason is because it was a defence then life wouldn't give honour and armour would, which is clearly not the case.

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Why should evasion double dip but nothing else? What about all of the times when an ES build takes a hit and an evasion build avoids it?

for some reason you and everyone else are painstakingly focused on "Monster hits" and ignoring what i have been arguing on almost every single response this entire thread...

TRAPS...TRAPS...TRAPS... traps don't care if you have evasion or energy shield... fire on the ground doesn't care if you have evasion or energy shield... poison doesn't care about evasion or energy shield... Why should i be punished with lower honor for choosing to do an evade build when there are things in the trial that don't care if you have 100% evade they can still hit you...

You inability to comprehend an argument doesn't make it a stupid argument

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As has been stated over and over the reason ES gives honour is not because it is a defence it is because it is part of your health pool.

If the reason is because it was a defence then life wouldn't give honour and armour would, which is clearly not the case.

and i understand this completely, but as with what i said above, there are plenty of things in the trial that don't care whether you have 10000000% evasion, they can still hit you. DO you think its fair that evasion builds are being punished by receiving less honor for not stacking life and energy shield when there are things in the trial that can hit you regardless of how much evasion you have?

Yes, I do think that it's fair that a player specializing in health or ES, should have more "health equivalent" than a class that isnt specializing in health or ES. Someone specializing in evasion, with a 70% chance to stand on the trap and just not get hit even if they dont move is making that trade off in their build. Thats the whole point.

How am I going to deal with the million things that ignore evasion? Idk. Thats what the rest of my build is for. Thats what a 'Build' IS.

That is why you don't rely on only one form of damage mitigation. That's also the reason why there are things that ignore evasion in the first place, because if there wasn't, you would essentially end up with old-school Shadow builds that just avoided basically 100% of all damage ever, with evasion and dodge stacking; unlike modern shadow builds which just avoid 95%

By adding Honor to the pool that scaled with evasion, builds that had evasion would be "double dipping" on defense.

It's worth noting that I do think that the Trials of Sehkema do disproportionately punish some builds over others, and, in spite of the controversial difficulty curve, I actually enjoy the chaos trials a lot more.

The fact of the matter is, however, this just isnt that. If you were making a case about builds that rely on "Regen Tanking", like PoE1 Righteous Fire, or something, I would totally agree, but Evasion is already doing it's part by preventing you from getting hit X% of the time in the first place. It doesn't need buffing, you just need more of it.

If you are worried about 2k damage traps, 1. The devs said theyre working on that, and that we will see that update in the next few days, and 2. That is THE problem Evasion builds have to balance against. The game is overtuned right now, and damage numbers are wonky. You knew this. You quite literally signed up for it.

Balancing the game is the whole point of this play-test, but this is not an area that needs balancing. It is working as intended. If you don't like that, and I promise I am not being a dick when I say this; Genuinely, Truly, Evasion builds just might not be right for you. They certainly arent for me. I don't like rolling the dice like that.

However, if a player rolls well, they can be some of the tankiest builds in the game. If not? Well, Dex characters are typically associated with Roguish types who like games of chance, so I guess thats fairly appropriate.

This whole problem comes from them tying a mandatory part of your character progression to a niche mechanic that required specific builds in poe1.

See in sanctum there's already a working defense mechanic for ES users called resolve aegis (poe1 resolve = poe2 honor), it just blocks up to 50% of resolve loss on hit and takes 4 seconds of not taking damage to become active again after. But if they implemented it this way in poe2, then CI builds would not be able to finish the trial, and that's not an option cuz every build needs to be able to finish it. Then they would have to make honor not scale with your HP pool, but, again like in poe1, be a static value, and then melee builds would be fucked, they need that increased honor amount cuz, well, melee in an arpg.
And if they just give us more honor based on our evasion, then evasion stacking becomes OP. Stack evasion for both avoidance and bigger honor pool + get honor resistance relics = easy mode. There's no way to balance it properly, hence we got what we got

The few times I have successfully run an EV character (keep in mind I almost exclusively played PoE1 on Hardcore), I was doing either EV+Block stacking, and adding Acrobatics on a Scourge Arrow Pathfinder.

DoT, and Chaos damage were dealt with by flasks and cluster jewel crafting. Everything else was dealt with by one of the above. If you want to do an Evasion character, I know that Quarterstaves have at least one variant with a base block chance. Maybe you can make something work by combining the two? As for DoT damage?

I don't know what solution would work for you. Possibly a charm, or charm combination. I know they said they are making multi-slot belts more common, and obtainable earlier

I don't want to tell you to just "get good", because, as often as that has actually been the solution for me, it's never actually helpful.

I will say that, as of yet, on 4 different characters, I have not struggled to complete any of the sehkema trials. Granted, I tend to play fairly cautiously, (Hardcore main, remember?), but even on utterly glass canon characters where dying was the far bigger concern, as opposed to even interacting with Honor, the trials, Even before the changes they have already promised to make, can absolutely be completed without getting hit, if you are patient and a bit lucky, and certainly without getting hit more than a couple of times.

You may need to get better at manually dodging. I know the roll is a bit awkward right now, but it does appear to have I-Frames. You may need better gear. Maybe more movement speed. If you have gotten past A3, you should have access to the currency trader. If not, maybe hold off on the trial for a bit until you do.

There are also several, easy, currency grinding spots in A3. Item Find is really good in PoE 2. I'm literally running almost +100% right now. That can help with gear, and is generally more fun, in my experience.