PoE 2s shortcomings hurt cause they came at the price of PoE 1 improvements - Emotional Rant

We cant go back in time now and fix what they have done . All we can do is hope for a better update and to be delivered to us soon. Cuz really the early access start to get us boring . Especially after the nerf they did for the majority of builds.

If you want to do a nerf . Do it in the next season start not in the middle of the season when players are enjoying the game . People have to learn this.

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BlueTemplar85#0647 wrote:

And, as others have already mentioned, have you forgotten the recent 'sendoff' to PoE1 that was SoK ? Isn't it «the best / biggest league ever» ? One that «finally fixed combat and made respec easy and added currency auction house and...» ?

I don't like to get bogged down in this kind of discussion but i think i must in this case
SoK for everything it brought to PoE1 was Extremely Low effort.

Backported Content:
Currency Exchange the community has been asking for this for what 5 years? we finally get it and it turns out it was just a live stress test to make sure it works in 2
Kingsmarch is a confirmed 2 asset
Runes 2 asset just recoloured a bit

Bring Back old content as “new”:
Recomb
Mirror Mists

What did SoK add by itself and was exclusively done for that league:
Idle Game Mechanic and strongboxes that drop ore

Not Sure about the Bosses someone told me they were 2 Recolors i haven't found them yet

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SaKRaaN#0012 wrote:

We cant go back in time now and fix what they have done . All we can do is hope for a better update and to be delivered to us soon. Cuz really the early access start to get us boring . Especially after the nerf they did for the majority of builds.

If you want to do a nerf . Do it in the next season start not in the middle of the season when players are enjoying the game . People have to learn this.

Agreed. The feedback is there, if it's backed-up by data from GGG's end (currently the player count is holding) they will hgave to adjust. We'll see.

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Etvein#1213 wrote:

1) I played Diablo 2 when it just released and was playing it for the last 20 years. Please stop the notion of D2 being slow since it was never slow, ever and there was no meaningful loot. That's a lie unless you played offline.
For the most part D2 loop was like that:
Campaign rushing to A2 -> get TP staff (unless sorc), rush the rest then farm uniques -> sell uniques for high runes, buy build defining uniques -> farm more -> get Enigma -> zoom -> farm more -> cube craft accessories

Oh boy. You didn't play much at release, right?
D2 had barely any "cool" loot until patch 1.10. And runes came even later than that.

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just_dont#6539 wrote:

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Etvein#1213 wrote:

1) I played Diablo 2 when it just released and was playing it for the last 20 years. Please stop the notion of D2 being slow since it was never slow, ever and there was no meaningful loot. That's a lie unless you played offline.
For the most part D2 loop was like that:
Campaign rushing to A2 -> get TP staff (unless sorc), rush the rest then farm uniques -> sell uniques for high runes, buy build defining uniques -> farm more -> get Enigma -> zoom -> farm more -> cube craft accessories

Oh boy. You didn't play much at release, right?
D2 had barely any "cool" loot until patch 1.10. And runes came even later than that.

Yes I did, Charsi craft rushes and Hellforge jumps were a thing, but they were obsolete eventually.
Also 1.10 is what? Super uniques? also not much of a loot change

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Etvein#1213 wrote:

Also 1.10 is what? Super uniques? also not much of a loot change

1.10 is just "uniques". Well over half of D2 uniques were only added in 1.10.

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Etvein#1213 wrote:

[...]
1) I played Diablo 2 when it just released and was playing it for the last 20 years. Please stop the notion of D2 being slow since it was never slow, ever and there was no meaningful loot. That's a lie unless you played offline.
For the most part D2 loop was like that:
Campaign rushing to A2 -> get TP staff (unless sorc), rush the rest then farm uniques -> sell uniques for high runes, buy build defining uniques -> farm more -> get Enigma -> zoom -> farm more -> cube craft accessories

In offline it was pretty much the same but on players 8 instead of trade.

D2 also had a bunch of movement speed skills (Paladin aura, Sorc TP, Burst of Speed for assassins, previously mentioned TP staff, run/walk speed items with up to 40-50% increases etc.)

Also JSP was what ruined D2 and not the younger generations.
[...]

PoE1 Ruthless isn't slow either by that account, that's not what I mean by «dungeon zoomer».
You're presenting just one of the ways to play D2.
Despite having around a thousand hours in D2, I've never used a TP staff (despite not only playing sorc), never got an Enigma, hardly ever played in Hell, hardly ever traded.
I also gave up on Battle.net mode after my character (with non-stash-shared loot) got deleted yet again due to more than 6 months of inactivity.
And you fail to mention D2's extensive modding (which is understandable if you only played Battle.net).
First time I ever hear of JSP, though I did try a little bit another trade forum (but never engaged much into the trading part, as it IMHO devalues finding loot yourself and trying to build for what you find).

"

2) We complain because every ARPG on the market is to your liking. Last Epoch is diablo like, Grim dawn is diablo like, TQ is somewhat diablo like, Diablo 4 was diablo like. But we only had PoE 1 for the deep mechanics and zoom-zoom and well D2R to an extent.

I'm mostly calling out D3 for dumbing down loot. I agree that the zooming is perhaps orthogonal to this, though zooming does seem to come hand in hand with at least the loot explosion issue
(D3 and now D4 has the extra issue that normal/magic/rare items are worthless, and yet they still drop).

"

6) Maybe you are right, but as a live service game with regular league updates, bug fixes, new mechanics and new *stuff* in general - it will be dead.

If you click on my link for Median XL you would see that it provides all of this for a game that was essentially abandoned by Activision-Blizzard (who are focusing on D2R now).
And AFAIK it's not even the only one : I've also heard of Path of Diablo (heh) and Project D2.
(Not sure if there are still big D2 total conversion mods that aren't also focused on having an MP/trading community ??)

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Maldosam#3663 wrote:

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BlueTemplar85#0647 wrote:

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Maldosam#3663 wrote:

[...]
If they had planned to rest after EA release, or just work on finishing missing content (acts and classes), they're mistaken.
[...]

See, like this — why the hell would GGG have thought this ?
(They went through something similar for PoE1 already after all.)
Where does this idea even comes from ??

A few moments later...

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BlueTemplar85#0647 wrote:

EDIT : I've seen mentions of «6 months of open beta» thrown around [note: as in GGG announced 6-12 months], IMHO this is ridiculously optimistic, it took a year and a half for PoE1, and I would expect at least that for PoE2.

:p :p

Heh, fair point.
I was not sure if GGG was foolish enough to actually state this : got a link ?

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carssch#0798 wrote:

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BlueTemplar85#0647 wrote:

And, as others have already mentioned, have you forgotten the recent 'sendoff' to PoE1 that was SoK ? Isn't it «the best / biggest league ever» ? One that «finally fixed combat and made respec easy and added currency auction house and...» ?

I don't like to get bogged down in this kind of discussion but i think i must in this case
SoK for everything it brought to PoE1 was Extremely Low effort.

Backported Content:
Currency Exchange the community has been asking for this for what 5 years? we finally get it and it turns out it was just a live stress test to make sure it works in 2
Kingsmarch is a confirmed 2 asset
Runes 2 asset just recoloured a bit

Bring Back old content as “new”:
Recomb
Mirror Mists

What did SoK add by itself and was exclusively done for that league:
Idle Game Mechanic and strongboxes that drop ore

Not Sure about the Bosses someone told me they were 2 Recolors i haven't found them yet

I mean, if it's "low effort"
(I still doubt it, like, compare with Necropolis, and it's not just about graphical assets),
but it works, is it worth complaining that much ?

You seem to have skipped the melee rebalance
(I guess I should have been specific about update + league),
that doesn't seem like it would have been «low effort», especially with not even being able to copy PoE2 that much ?

OP summarized my feelings well.
PoE2 isn't bad, it's pretty good. It's also not the zoom zoom game which is what kept me playing PoE1. I'll keep at it because I'm optimistic about GGG, but this doesn't feel like an experience that will keep pulling me back every league yet personally.

Which would all be fine if we hadn't lost literally 50% of PoE1 content already this year. Which they explicitly told us wasn't supposed to happen. The content we did get was recycled or assets from/testing for 2. Ruthless was just supposed to be a for fun side thing, but it was the template for a lot in PoE2 like many of us assumed. It really feels like they're already planning to sunset PoE1 and just not telling us. I hope I'm wrong, but I also know how hard it is to develop multiple products simultaneously - one pretty much always ends up in maintenance mode unless you double your team size.

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BlueTemplar85#0647 wrote:

PoE1 Ruthless isn't slow either by that account, that's not what I mean by «dungeon zoomer».
You're presenting just one of the ways to play D2.
Despite having around a thousand hours in D2, I've never used a TP staff (despite not only playing sorc), never got an Enigma, hardly ever played in Hell, hardly ever traded.
I also gave up on Battle.net mode after my character (with non-stash-shared loot) got deleted yet again due to more than 6 months of inactivity.
And you fail to mention D2's extensive modding (which is understandable if you only played Battle.net).
First time I ever hear of JSP, though I did try a little bit another trade forum (but never engaged much into the trading part, as it IMHO devalues finding loot yourself and trying to build for what you find).

I am sorry in advance for answering in a 1.2.3. kind of way, it's just easier for me as a non native English speaker.

1) I know it's an unpopular opinion but Ruthless was actually pretty cool this league, I enjoyed it very much and played 2 characters straight into maps. It was also way faster then PoE 2.

2) The fact you didn't use a TP staff or Enigma doesn't mean anything as the game gave us the option to use these things. So the choice was there, you just decided not to play with it which is okay, but PoE 2 just says "take it or leave" we have no options.

3) Never played any D2 mods, I'd actually try them if they had the D2R graphics. The old graphics just look ugly on modern wide screens IMO

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BlueTemplar85#0647 wrote:

I'm mostly calling out D3 for dumbing down loot. I agree that the zooming is perhaps orthogonal to this, though zooming does seem to come hand in hand with at least the loot explosion issue
(D3 and now D4 has the extra issue that normal/magic/rare items are worthless, and yet they still drop).

4) You might be onto something, because I enjoyed D3 very much especially between seasons 5 to 16. I played a lot of it and I really liked it. I was really sad when they announced D4 tbh.

5) As for Median, I prefer D2R ladder resets since as I said I just can't fathom the older graphics on my PC, it just looks distorted and ugly IMO.

But to be honest I might give it a chance anyway.


P.S. Also man, you are a great person to talk to, I had to say. Most interactions on this forum this week were really toxic

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BlueTemplar85#0647 wrote:

EDIT : I've seen mentions of «6 months of open beta» thrown around, IMHO this is ridiculously optimistic, it took a year and a half for PoE1, and I would expect at least that for PoE2.

GGG fiscal year ends Sep 30, they have to either release a full game with league content and with supporter packs by around mid-Sep 2025 or they are in a hot pickle with Tencent.