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No true PoE fan would be on board with this direction. It’s as close to Ruthless 2.0 as you can get, and that mode was hated by the masses. But instead of learning from that, they doubled down and turned PoE 2 into a full embodiment of what made Ruthless so despised.
On top of that, they’ve gone overboard with after-death ground effects. Sorry, but these lame mechanics don’t make the game harder—they just make it annoying. You beat the enemy, but then you’re forced to either risk dying to some lingering ground effect while trying to grab loot or stand around waiting for it to clear. It’s a tedious, unnecessary addition that adds nothing but frustration.
PREACH! +1000000 ^.^
+99
Trial of chaos is too OA.
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Posted byCorrectitude#7532on Dec 15, 2024, 6:30:54 AM
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With PoE2, however, it feels like this data has been ignored or simply left out of the equation in favor of pursuing a specific vision.
Very true, and will this vision keep players coming back to play the same game over and over. POE1 is a phenomenon in that a decade on it keeps hitting record player number.
It does this through a complex balance of features that ultimately lead to an experience that is rewarding to replay.
Twitch based combat just doesn't offer this, the bosses get stale, there isn't the same attraction in running the 40 hour slog of a campaign for the 100th time. Look at all the big names in the genre GGG is trying to mimic, they all fade into obscurity over time.
Time will tell, I really hope GGG hasn't done too much damange to the player base that fund it, and will and have stuck around.
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Posted byXeonPOE#7768on Dec 15, 2024, 6:31:31 AM
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Some people like Ruthless, some don't, why to yell "ruthless is bad" if you jsut do not like that?)
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Posted byQuadbro#7117on Dec 15, 2024, 6:48:30 AM
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Some people like Ruthless, some don't, why to yell "ruthless is bad" if you jsut do not like that?)
Beacuse only a small fraction of the POE 1 player base play ruthless. If POE 2 wants players to keep playing it beyond a few sweaty streamers and no lifers it needs to appeal to a slightly broader audience.
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Posted byXeonPOE#7768on Dec 15, 2024, 6:56:24 AM
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It's not ruthless. Ruthless has almost no access to gems nor currency and is not how the game had evolved to be played, I.e. rushing to atlas so you can do the new league stuff.
Poe2 drowns you in gems to where you stop picking them, and I found plenty of currency and gear, full decent rares in act 2 between crafting, finding, and vendoring. There is no league stuff to rush to in poe2 yet. The campaign is the main thing to do right now.
It's absolutely not ruthless. That meme needs to die. If it feels ruthless to you it's because you went in with the poe1 rush to maps mentality and tried to skip an entire game you didn't understand.
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No true PoE fan would be on board with this direction. It’s as close to Ruthless 2.0 as you can get, and that mode was hated by the masses. But instead of learning from that, they doubled down and turned PoE 2 into a full embodiment of what made Ruthless so despised.
On top of that, they’ve gone overboard with after-death ground effects. Sorry, but these lame mechanics don’t make the game harder—they just make it annoying. You beat the enemy, but then you’re forced to either risk dying to some lingering ground effect while trying to grab loot or stand around waiting for it to clear. It’s a tedious, unnecessary addition that adds nothing but frustration.
TIL I'm no true PoE fan
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Posted byWarwipf#5160on Dec 15, 2024, 7:07:31 AM
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This brings me to the core of my constructive criticism and a key question: whose vision are we playing?
The obvious answer is the game director's and company owners. But I'm assuming that's not what your trying to get at. But its the correct answer. A game can't be made for 'everyone'. Its pretty much the first lesson they teach about design. You need to make hard choices about who to include and who to ultimatley alienate.
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We cannot overlook the existence of the first game, nor can we ignore the data that reveals what players want—or don’t want.
This is very true, but these decisions were made regardless.
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Let me be clear: I’m not saying PoE2 is a bad game—it certainly isn’t. However, in some fundamental aspects, it feels like a step back compared to PoE1. Despite the statement that PoE2 isn’t supposed to be PoE1, the contrast is striking.
I think the idea of comparing PoE1 10 years of layered development and extremely refined content delivery to a baseline minimum viable product for a early access title that's been out 8 days is a bit unfair.
There has been very deliberate choices made against the PoE1 design that goes against to how people used to play. It wasn't a accident, its designed to bring back certain parts of the game that was ignored for 8 years back into focus (i.e. a focus on base items and blue crafting).
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If PoE1 didn’t exist in its current state, I doubt there would be the same level of hype around PoE2. I could understand if PoE2 had been developed without PoE1 as a reference point—then we’d simply be playing GGG’s vision, with no prior data to guide them.
You are probably right, but its a pointless thought exercise.
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It’s often said in the gaming industry that players don’t always know what they want. While that might be true to some extent, it’s hard to justify ignoring feedback and data from PoE1 entirely in favor of pursuing a singular vision. I personally think that’s a significant mistake.
Players shouldn’t always get exactly what they ask for, but there needs to be a healthy balance. I’m convinced that GGG, using the data from PoE1 combined with their vision, could strike that balance effectively.
It's easier to give something to an audience than to ask for something back from them. They very intentionally released in a over tuned state so when the balance does eventually roll around (and it will) people will receive it more positively.
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GGG takes a “slow build” approach, evolving the game over time to align more closely with PoE1.
I'd see no reason why they would willingly cannibalize their own market share needlessly. They already have the map zoomer power grinders covered in POE1, and if they bounced off PoE2, they will most likely still play PoE1. Almost every person I've seen reacting negatively to PoE2 has said they will go back to PoE1 at worst, almost noone except the most saltiest people are leaving for D4 or LE.
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They remain steadfast in their vision, and we players must adapt.
Both approaches have their merits. It makes sense that we can’t immediately match the power and speed of PoE1—players always expect more and faster. If we started at the same baseline as PoE1, we might find ourselves blazing through PoE2 in just two days.
Very true, and well said.
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Personally, I wouldn’t need drastic changes to feel more at home in PoE2. A little more movement speed, additional crafting options, more flask charges, and maybe some oldschool movement skills.
Thats down to personal taste, but there is clearly a obvious choice to faux limit certain degenerate character build choices from PoE1 like movement speed, crafting etc. Have they gone too far? Possible, but see about above it being easier to give than take away.
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Currently, with the right build and gear, PoE2 can play somewhat similarly to PoE1—but reaching that point not only takes unnecessarily long, it’s also padded with tedious tasks that seem designed solely to extend playtime. This doesn’t make the game harder, just more time-consuming.
Honestly, I've been surprised how fast people are solving PoE2. 10 years of experience will do that to most people but its been amazing watching group's like Empy/Snap slam through the content like its a normal league launch.
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Posted bypixxpixx#4258on Dec 15, 2024, 7:34:19 AM
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But I'm willing to bet most of the people freaking out on the forums are still actively playing the game. I'd be curious to see how many "up in arms" gamers are also throwing money at MTX and all the other shit.
I've stopped playing and having spent 4 figures on MTX over the last decade I'll not purchase any more if this is the future of the game. But I will of course check in because I've seen GGG do this before, and realise their mistake.
Mapping is fine compared to trials, so yeah i still play... You can beat t10+ with only 2 ascendancies, so not the whole game is out of bounce. It is the ascendency trials that are completely out of bounce. You should need your 3rd ascendancy to be able to map comfortably and your 4th to attempt higher tier maps, not the other way around. it is a huge design flaw. Right now the ascendancies are the uber game. This is pointless.
Last edited by Strickl3r#3809 on Dec 15, 2024, 7:39:43 AM
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Posted byStrickl3r#3809on Dec 15, 2024, 7:39:24 AM
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[...] it’s not about copying a function or mechanic 1:1, but rather understanding what the function achieves, the impact it has, and the emotions it triggers in players. GGG has always excelled at analyzing and interpreting these dynamics.
With PoE2, however, it feels like this data has been ignored or simply left out of the equation in favor of pursuing a specific vision.
Exactly!
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Posted byMaldosam#3663on Dec 15, 2024, 7:46:10 AM
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This brings me to the core of my constructive criticism and a key question: whose vision are we playing?
The obvious answer is the game director's and company owners. But I'm assuming that's not what your trying to get at. But its the correct answer. A game can't be made for 'everyone'. Its pretty much the first lesson they teach about design. You need to make hard choices about who to include and who to ultimatley alienate.
"
We cannot overlook the existence of the first game, nor can we ignore the data that reveals what players want—or don’t want.
This is very true, but these decisions were made regardless.
"
Let me be clear: I’m not saying PoE2 is a bad game—it certainly isn’t. However, in some fundamental aspects, it feels like a step back compared to PoE1. Despite the statement that PoE2 isn’t supposed to be PoE1, the contrast is striking.
I think the idea of comparing PoE1 10 years of layered development and extremely refined content delivery to a baseline minimum viable product for a early access title that's been out 8 days is a bit unfair.
There has been very deliberate choices made against the PoE1 design that goes against to how people used to play. It wasn't a accident, its designed to bring back certain parts of the game that was ignored for 8 years back into focus (i.e. a focus on base items and blue crafting).
"
If PoE1 didn’t exist in its current state, I doubt there would be the same level of hype around PoE2. I could understand if PoE2 had been developed without PoE1 as a reference point—then we’d simply be playing GGG’s vision, with no prior data to guide them.
You are probably right, but its a pointless thought exercise.
"
It’s often said in the gaming industry that players don’t always know what they want. While that might be true to some extent, it’s hard to justify ignoring feedback and data from PoE1 entirely in favor of pursuing a singular vision. I personally think that’s a significant mistake.
Players shouldn’t always get exactly what they ask for, but there needs to be a healthy balance. I’m convinced that GGG, using the data from PoE1 combined with their vision, could strike that balance effectively.
It's easier to give something to an audience than to ask for something back from them. They very intentionally released in a over tuned state so when the balance does eventually roll around (and it will) people will receive it more positively.
"
GGG takes a “slow build” approach, evolving the game over time to align more closely with PoE1.
I'd see no reason why they would willingly cannibalize their own market share needlessly. They already have the map zoomer power grinders covered in POE1, and if they bounced off PoE2, they will most likely still play PoE1. Almost every person I've seen reacting negatively to PoE2 has said they will go back to PoE1 at worst, almost noone except the most saltiest people are leaving for D4 or LE.
"
They remain steadfast in their vision, and we players must adapt.
Both approaches have their merits. It makes sense that we can’t immediately match the power and speed of PoE1—players always expect more and faster. If we started at the same baseline as PoE1, we might find ourselves blazing through PoE2 in just two days.
Very true, and well said.
"
Personally, I wouldn’t need drastic changes to feel more at home in PoE2. A little more movement speed, additional crafting options, more flask charges, and maybe some oldschool movement skills.
Thats down to personal taste, but there is clearly a obvious choice to faux limit certain degenerate character build choices from PoE1 like movement speed, crafting etc. Have they gone too far? Possible, but see about above it being easier to give than take away.
"
Currently, with the right build and gear, PoE2 can play somewhat similarly to PoE1—but reaching that point not only takes unnecessarily long, it’s also padded with tedious tasks that seem designed solely to extend playtime. This doesn’t make the game harder, just more time-consuming.
Honestly, I've been surprised how fast people are solving PoE2. 10 years of experience will do that to most people but its been amazing watching group's like Empy/Snap slam through the content like its a normal league launch.
Thank you for your honest response. It’s refreshing to receive a reply with real substance.
I’m not passing judgment on the future of the game, but rather on its current state and what this state might imply about the game’s direction moving forward.
I’m also aware that negative voices are often louder than positive ones. However, an Early Access phase exists to gather feedback, so I’m trying to contribute my part.
I completely agree with you that it’s always easier to give something to players than to take it away.
That said, the current state of the game reflects GGG’s vision and hints at the direction they might be heading. My concern is that this direction may not align with the majority of the player base.
Nevertheless, personally, I remain optimistic that we’ll see PoE2 evolve closer to PoE1 in the future.
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Posted byRickyMarten#4003on Dec 15, 2024, 8:40:48 AM
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