Minion gameplay is too passive and too good for what it is after around lvl 30.

Minions are done right.

They start uber weak to the point you self-casting is better.
They start to shine by Act 3 just from passives.
By the time you reach maps they are finally good. Melting bosses good.

They are strong because you spent every point you had on them. Just like you would be strong if all the damage and survivability you put into your minions, you'd put into yourself.

And No I don't believe you you don't have to do anything. Minion AI is as retarded as ever. If they get stuck in a corridor on each other, you can do nothing but walk away and let them respawn. They won't even react to the minion move command. 10 retards trying to fit through a narrow door situation.

Sorry not sorry. My viewpoint is minion builds are early boss killers.

Minion builds should be like this. Higher floor, lower ceiling. There are not many ways you can scale up by the time you reach endgame, and for sure you will not scale as much as any other build/archetype in the game. Gear does almost nothing for your minions except for weapon / helmet / +spirit on gear...

We are exactly where we need to be. I imagine it can only get better with spectres and Animate Guardian ...

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AIDA_TriEdge#4390 wrote:

And, in the end, isn't the whole point of a minion based class for the summoner to be on the back row while the pawns do the dirty work?

Not necessarily. They can be just buffers and some damage augumentation. It is perfectly reasonable a concept where minions try to protect you and a good aprt of the damage comes from you directly.

Granted.. it is not easy to find the perfect balance.

Permanent minions are not OP in my opinion, at least compared to other skills which I have seen around. I thought that my minion build was strong until I joined a group, and then quickly realised that I was just lagging behind. That being said, Raging Spirits (which is often used alongside permanent minions), seems to be too good value. Also, as a minions enjoyer, part of the fantasy is that your army does the work and you buff them. Not the other way around, that just doesn't make sense and I can't understand from why someone would want to play minions like that. If you want a more "active" playstyle, then why not play a class where you do the damage yourself?

P.s., I hope GGG doesn't take rash decisions based on such limited playtime.

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Devwind#3215 wrote:

Command skills are fun to play with at the beginning, but after you get 3 or 4 types of minions, they get old really fast and become somewhat hard to manage. And since I already have 4 skills that I actively use, I'm okay with leaving them behind.

I didn't play witch, thought it might be too passive for me, but I imagine it could be fun with actively using command skills, like a mix between ARPG and RTS game. Hope GGG will make it to work fun eventually, if it still isn't.

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cVGhost#3152 wrote:

Minions are done right.

They start uber weak to the point you self-casting is better.
They start to shine by Act 3 just from passives.
By the time you reach maps they are finally good. Melting bosses good.

They are strong because you spent every point you had on them. Just like you would be strong if all the damage and survivability you put into your minions, you'd put into yourself.

And No I don't believe you you don't have to do anything. Minion AI is as retarded as ever. If they get stuck in a corridor on each other, you can do nothing but walk away and let them respawn. They won't even react to the minion move command. 10 retards trying to fit through a narrow door situation.

Sorry not sorry. My viewpoint is minion builds are early boss killers.

Minion builds should be like this. Higher floor, lower ceiling. There are not many ways you can scale up by the time you reach endgame, and for sure you will not scale as much as any other build/archetype in the game. Gear does almost nothing for your minions except for weapon / helmet / +spirit on gear...

We are exactly where we need to be. I imagine it can only get better with spectres and Animate Guardian ...

Did you play without Raging Spirits? Because I don't use them and it's like I'm running for my life 99% of the time. Doing each map for so long, that I'm starting to not like it. Enemy just ignores my minons (if they don't block them) and run straight for me. Ok, I definitely shouldn't be just a mentor overlooking a battlefield, but they are also not that strong either. Zombies are good only when you start raising them under their feet. Otherwise they expire sooner they get to another battle. In boss fights are zombies useless, because there are no corpses around.

"

LifeIsADream01#8363 wrote:

Permanent minions are not OP in my opinion, at least compared to other skills which I have seen around. I thought that my minion build was strong until I joined a group, and then quickly realised that I was just lagging behind. That being said, Raging Spirits (which is often used alongside permanent minions), seems to be too good value. Also, as a minions enjoyer, part of the fantasy is that your army does the work and you buff them. Not the other way around, that just doesn't make sense and I can't understand from why someone would want to play minions like that. If you want a more "active" playstyle, then why not play a class where you do the damage yourself?

Because we want someone to take the hits for us. For me minions on all games were more for diverting the enemies than damage dealing.

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Puliver#7825 wrote:

Did you play without Raging Spirits? Because I don't use them and it's like I'm running for my life 99% of the time. Doing each map for so long, that I'm starting to not like it. Enemy just ignores my minons (if they don't block them) and run straight for me. Ok, I definitely shouldn't be just a mentor overlooking a battlefield, but they are also not that strong either. Zombies are good only when you start raising them under their feet. Otherwise they expire sooner they get to another battle. In boss fights are zombies useless, because there are no corpses around.

I've picked up Raging Spirits pretty late so yes, and even with them the moment anything gets close to you, you run (at the moment) ...

So even the first point, you being passive, is not very valid. I need to cast Flame Wall every x secods, i need to keep up pain offering that heals me and the minions and buffs them ... i tried picking up bone cage just in case it might help with the stuff that gets close to you.

My first wake up call after the power trip that was cruel difficulty with Raging spirits + 7 arso + 2 warr from scepter + Cleric was when I opened my first breach. Yeah, good luck surviving that even with an army like that 🤣

Also I don't play MI + Infernal Legion SRS, i play regular fire convert SRS where I actually need to extend their life through duration nodes and support. I looked at what Ghazzy was doing and said to myself nah, this ain't it - and I'm glad they pretty much patched it out the next day (recast with Cast on Minion Death).

"

cVGhost#3152 wrote:

Minions are done right.

They start uber weak to the point you self-casting is better.
They start to shine by Act 3 just from passives.
By the time you reach maps they are finally good. Melting bosses good.

They are strong because you spent every point you had on them. Just like you would be strong if all the damage and survivability you put into your minions, you'd put into yourself.

And No I don't believe you you don't have to do anything. Minion AI is as retarded as ever. If they get stuck in a corridor on each other, you can do nothing but walk away and let them respawn. They won't even react to the minion move command. 10 retards trying to fit through a narrow door situation.

Sorry not sorry. My viewpoint is minion builds are early boss killers.

Minion builds should be like this. Higher floor, lower ceiling. There are not many ways you can scale up by the time you reach endgame, and for sure you will not scale as much as any other build/archetype in the game. Gear does almost nothing for your minions except for weapon / helmet / +spirit on gear...

We are exactly where we need to be. I imagine it can only get better with spectres and Animate Guardian ...

Minion builds don't HAVE to be like this. Think out of the box for a minute... that's how you bring innovation, change, new exciting gameplay. Nothing is set in stone.

- There is NO reason minion survivability should be based on your skill point choice, in fact I think that's also a mistake.

- Minion damage COULD scale off your own damage, thus making them much less limited like they are now. For every other class there's a load of options to pick, not for minions though, it's always around the same couple of nodes. Obviously, if something like that would happen there would have to be some balancing factor between your power and theirs. but my point stands.. it COULD be different. It doesn't have to be this way.

Much more to say but here's a thought I just had about how skeleton archers could work (as an example):

Their auto attacks could do almost no damage but instead their arrows would get stuck into enemies, allowing for other command skills or skills you use yourself to shine.

For example: You could use some sort of rip skill and remove all arrows to make them bleed for a lot of damage, or you could order your skeletons to explode them, or they could just work as a debuff to increase damage for another skill you use, or they could enable another command skill from another type of minion after a certain number of arrows is reached.

The gas arrow + explode them with another skill currently in the game is exactly along the lines of where their thinking should have gone for everything. But ghosts of the past are still present in the way minions just work. They can't bring real change without reworking them from the ground up.

Many possibilities, you just have to be open to change and think out of the box, that's all.

It's not about being passive, but I don't like to be like "I'm too young to die" all the time :D. That's not how necromacer should look like. They are mistresses of undead armies. Not damsels in distress :). Just running for life 99% of the game isn't that much fun after a while. Yeah, I wanted to be more occult like but it seems that that will not work and I just need to grind for skill gems to change the offensive spells I'm using right now. That's another story. They tend to not drop that often and now I'm just playing something I don't feel is good and cannot adjust it until I get lucky to get new spell.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

I'll try to keep it structured and easy to follow.

Can't wait for RF tank builds to return. That is totally afk way to play poe.