Honor mechanic for the ascension trial is... kind of really hateful.

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Dekudibusei#1791 wrote:

I haven't done it yet, purely out of fear. Reading this thread doesn't make it any better.

I play Sorc (and Merc, Warrior, and Witch), and the notion that even a hit to Energy Shield for the (partially) Intelligence-based classes costs Honor whereas Evading does nothing makes it unfair to those classes, or at least strongly favoring Dexterity/Evasion-based ones.

Pure melee is even worse off. I'm leaving the level 11 Warrior in early Act 1 for now. I can't even entertain the notion of going through the Act 1 boss and then the Trial, LOL.

And gaining a few levels in order to be able to tackle the Trial is not going to work either, because the Ascendancy *itself* is a major power boost in that regard (and is intended to be). You'd still be majorly crippled.

Not a pleasant situation to be in.

To be perfectly honest, Act 1 boss was VERY easy with a tank warrior.
I only fought it with Witch and Warrior and Warrior was first try not even a sweat, while Witch was a struggle.

But yeah, Trial of the Sekhemas with a warrior, definitely not fun.
Witch was already extremely hard and I feel like I only managed it due to lucking out and getting a literal immortality by pure luck and chance on my fight with the last boss.

It definitely favors too heavily the Evasion builds.

I just farmed levels for the first few tries, avoided as much damage as possible and got as much gear as I could for relics, then I was fine :) It's designed as a rogue-like, so needs to be played as such.

The honour trials are just idiotic, no idea who came up with that. On fire mage I'm standing near the wall, peek out, throw a spell, and hide, just to not get hit by a minion, like in some god damn CS:GO or something. A minion that does no damage to my anyway and I wouldn't even notice it in a normal map. If I had 50 hours to spare I would probably beat this trial this way, but I don't and I don't want to.

I feel like in some of those bad stealth missions in AC:Unity back in the day. These are not the good flashbacks to have, didn't expect them from this game that's for sure.

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Shadov1#6836 wrote:

The honour trials are just idiotic, no idea who came up with that. On fire mage I'm standing near the wall, peek out, throw a spell, and hide, just to not get hit by a minion, like in some god damn CS:GO or something. A minion that does no damage to my anyway and I wouldn't even notice it in a normal map. If I had 50 hours to spare I would probably beat this trial this way, but I don't and I don't want to.

I feel like in some of those bad stealth missions in AC:Unity back in the day. These are not the good flashbacks to have, didn't expect them from this game that's for sure.

It is very rough for classes that don't have good Evasion values and, specially for thorn build tanks or full resist tanks it is extremely rough and unfair.
Considering just the ammount of posts and discussions on it here and on Reddit, it definitely need some adjustments.

I wouldn't have purchased early access if I knew about the trial

It's the least fun I've had, not only in ARPGs but games in general.

Just to punishing as a warrior. The rest of the game is fun despite the "anti-melee" mechanics throughout the game. The trial just isn't fun at all. I'm up to 8-10 tier maps and just went back to try the level 65 trials.

I'm fine with challenging, even punishing but dislike tedious. I can deal with tedious if it isn't terrible punishing.

Tedious + Punishing + Rare Drop = Fail

The fact that even ranged/mobile classes are waiting until 75-80 with full gear to do lvl 65 content tells you it's not tuned correctly. Nearly all advice you will find advises you to max resists and and way over gear and over level the content. Many of them tell you to be able to one shot the rares. Once you can one shot the rares the content should be irrelevant at that point, not harder than level 10 maps, not to mention unenjoyable altogether.

This needs to be doable for the majority of players at around lvl 65. Factor in gear difference/bad RNG on gear maybe you wait until lvl 68. Once I complete this I wont feel a sense of accomplishment, it will be a feeling of relief. That is not what you want your game to be.

Why not force us to clear an entire map if we die to the boss during campaign? It would still be far more enjoyable than this. At least I get XP, you don't even get any real XP out of this.

Not to mention the points I get are not valued anywhere near the effort. For my third set I can gain that much power from gaining a few levels or an item upgrade. These third set of points need add 3-4x character power (over what they offer now) to be worth the current challenge. .5% HP/sec and 300 HP, or 18% armor + and %50 armor from equipped items when I already have over 12,000 armor isn't worth it. I can get that with a few nodes. 2 of these points is worth 3 talent points? Needs to be more like 5-6 for me to even bother with this.

To do all this for what equals 3 (maybe 4) talents points worth of power is the least efficient way to play the game.

Reduce the number of floors to 2 for second set and 3 for the third or make each point worth more. Why is .5% regen in this tree? Why is a minor armor node even in this tree? I count 6 nodes in this tree that are basically minor nodes, weaker in the case of the minor armor node.

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Rezmebro#0996 wrote:

It's the least fun I've had, not only in ARPGs but games in general.

[...]

I'm fine with challenging, even punishing but dislike tedious. I can deal with tedious if it isn't terrible punishing.

Tedious + Punishing + Rare Drop = Fail

The fact that even ranged/mobile classes are waiting until 75-80 with full gear to do lvl 65 content tells you it's not tuned correctly. Nearly all advice you will find advises you to max resists and and way over gear and over level the content. Many of them tell you to be able to one shot the rares. Once you can one shot the rares the content should be irrelevant at that point, not harder than level 10 maps, not to mention unenjoyable altogether.

This needs to be doable for the majority of players at around lvl 65. Factor in gear difference/bad RNG on gear maybe you wait until lvl 68. Once I complete this I wont feel a sense of accomplishment, it will be a feeling of relief. That is not what you want your game to be.

I have to agree with this.
Also, the traps definitely need some huge nerf to their damage which is bad for basically everyone.

Had 1400 honor in a run at the second trial and one of my minions stood too close to me and got hit by one of those fireball firing traps, which apparently have a very slightly AoE damage when they hit (because I was standing still near the trap waiting to roll through) and I lost over 1000 honor because of that.

Wasn't even my mistake, but the minion AI standing too close to me while I waited for the trap and that basically ended my run.

How is it even fair for traps to do so much honor damage?
I'd say at least 50%, possibly 80% of the traps honor damage should be reduced.

Dude! I did the ascension for the first time yesterday and it was so frustrating!

My warrior is two-handed, but I greatly focus my build on resistance, armor, etc. I like to make a balanced build with damage and tankiness. I really have fun receiving damage while I'm tanking it. My health barely reached 80%, and yet I lost the trial because the honor system was depleted. It just doesn't make sense. Isn't it about compensating the player for making the right choices? I was just being punished for doing what I love... Taking damage and laughing in my enemies' faces, saying "Is that all you got???"...

Really... In my opinion, remove this system! But I agree with your suggestion, especially the options for gaining honor. Or remake it. I've loved this game since I started; all the challenges are enjoyable. I died a lot, forcing me to make the right choices, and I feel really good when I can kill bosses or surpass these difficult moments. But this system almost made me quit the game...

Anyway, I found your post and I think you described it best, and came to support this!

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GabrielJack#5664 wrote:

The current trials honor mechanic is kind of really, really annoying.

When the boss has around 30 or 40 thousand health and there is no way to regen honor mid battle and the boss puts dozens of vulcanos that last a year to disappear makes it EXTREMELY annoying.

I can't even think how the trials will be for melee characters.

I would absolutely vote for a removal or at least changes to the honor system as it is currently.

The trial could be twice as hard when it comes to enemies or damages, but that honor is absolutely hateful, being fully honest.

I would suggest at least that we gain 1 honor point every x amount of damage dealt to enemies.

The system isn't well thought out.

The game is about killing stuff, and in order to do that, you have to engage with stuff. Yet the system makes you actively want to avoid killing stuff, because you might be hit and then lose honor.

Not sure how you'd fix it. It's a neat idea, just poor execution.

It's actually largely the same issue XP loss on death has. People choose easier content to do, because they might die, and lose XP. Bad way of doing it.


I think it should be flipped. Where you start with zero honor, and have to earn it as you go through the zone. And yes, you can lose it when you take damage, but careful play can reward you with a large honor bar at the end boss fight, so taking a few hits isn't a bit deal. Overall a better experience. Still encourages people to play carefully too. Could have added challenge with more rewards in terms of mini-bosses or rares to kill too in each zone. Optional.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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GabrielJack#5664 wrote:

The current trials honor mechanic is kind of really, really annoying.

When the boss has around 30 or 40 thousand health and there is no way to regen honor mid battle and the boss puts dozens of vulcanos that last a year to disappear makes it EXTREMELY annoying.

I can't even think how the trials will be for melee characters.

I would absolutely vote for a removal or at least changes to the honor system as it is currently.

The trial could be twice as hard when it comes to enemies or damages, but that honor is absolutely hateful, being fully honest.

I would suggest at least that we gain 1 honor point every x amount of damage dealt to enemies.

The system isn't well thought out.

The game is about killing stuff, and in order to do that, you have to engage with stuff. Yet the system makes you actively want to avoid killing stuff, because you might be hit and then lose honor.

Not sure how you'd fix it. It's a neat idea, just poor execution.

It's actually largely the same issue XP loss on death has. People choose easier content to do, because they might die, and lose XP. Bad way of doing it.


I think it should be flipped. Where you start with zero honor, and have to earn it as you go through the zone. And yes, you can lose it when you take damage, but careful play can reward you with a large honor bar at the end boss fight, so taking a few hits isn't a bit deal. Overall a better experience. Still encourages people to play carefully too. Could have added challenge with more rewards in terms of mini-bosses or rares to kill too in each zone. Optional.

You'd fix it by only using hand crafted enemies that have slow telegraphed attacks. And you wouldn't put 30 of them in a small room.

Ranged telegraphed attacks that are more dangerous to ranged chars and melee ones for melee chars.

That takes work but it is the only way to not make a cheap un-fun mechanic.

Oh and find a way to make recoup and HP regen work on honour, even if it just means that we get a bonus when recovering honour in some way