Melee vs Ranged - Possible Sollution

Ranged can have endurance charges AND avoid most damage.

Melee can't have any more endurance charges than ranged, and needs to take alot more damage.

So it stands to reason that melee need to have access to MORE defenses than ranged, otherwise melee will never truly compete.

i know that everyone can have endurance charges
never said anything else
all i wanted was an easier way (for meeles only) to get them and that could be an support gem for meele attacks only (like life on hit)

what i realy wanted to say is,we have endurance charges (they work like the "charges" you suggested) and its "annoying" enough( neither hard nor difficult just annoying) to keep them up 24/7
so if you have to keep even more different charges up it will be even more annoying or even make meele unplayable

"

Vakirauta wrote:

How does this BALANCE the two? I don't like the fact that a ranged class takes the same damage as melee (In fact they don't even take damage by being able to clear maps from afar).

All the games I've played to this day gave a penalty for playing a ranged class, especially magic users whom were not able to wear ARMORS, because that is actually ridiculous - No guys, a magic caster wearing metal armor isn't diversity, it's bullshit.

it wouldnt balance meele but meeles could have it easier to keep those charges (meele still has to worry about getting surrounded/getting to close to too many monsters)

stacks/charges that you have to built up before you can fight and which you may even lose when dodging big hits (like vaals smash/laser,pietys ice arrows etc) imo!! it would simply improve the gameplay for meele a bit nothing else (adding more/new charges would only make it much worse)

PS: they announced moster dmg changes/meele buffs for the next big patch so lets see what they came up with

ciel289, I'm not saying your proposal is meaningless.
I agree it'd be nice for charges to last longer or something, as it's sometimes annoying to keep them up.

However, I'm saying your suggestion is not relevant to this discussion.

Your idea makes melee handle charges "easier", but doesn't make Melee any better.

Melee need something that COMPENSATES their weakness compared to ranged.
Your suggestion doesn't compensate anything.

my opinion: totally forget trying to balance melee and ranged with damage mitigation, instead balance melee and ranged by giving melee a totally awesome badass dps advantage

melee definitely needs the added killspeed to compete with ranged in terms of kills/minute -- this is important for farming balance, and increasing survivability doesn't help you kill faster (not really)

and survivability doesn't matter once your enemy is already dead

note this would require nerfing ranged damage to the point that one-shot kills on white mobs are virtually, if not totally, impossible for them

So that players could whine even harder about damage reflection?
No way, lol.

And my suggestion already gives melee damage advantage.
Just take less defense nodes - with my suggestion you don't need as many defense nodes.

the real problem is lifeleech/life on hit + high regeneration
as long as you are able to heal your whole hp in a few seconds the only way to create a threat of dieing are big hits
if you would lower lifeleech etc to 1/10 of what it is now (and maybe only 1/8 for meeles) and lower the dmg monster for the same amount
meeles would get a little buff (ofc fights would kinda "slowdown" a bit,so i´m not sure if it would work out)

i think its clear that reflection, especially physical reflection, has big issues. invalidating my suggestion on the back of a broken mechanic that needs fixing isnt exactly fair; instead, fix reflection. my suggestion: limit it to 20% max life per second, similar to how life leech is capped; instead of one-shotting themselves, it would become a leech race

in terms of leech-centric characters only dying to spike damage... this is true with ranged, where their ability to deal damage at all time is assured. with melee, this isn't so certain; ranged characters can damage melee in a position where melee cannot leech back. i think big hits (not one-shots, but definitely three-shots and sometimes two-shots... and those might be one-shots for the undergeared) should be implemented, but fairly exclusively on slow melee-range monsters like zombies

The reason I disagree with giving melee superior DPS, is because it would eventually make melee the best farmers - at least in specific maps - due to the highest damage potential - and wouldn't improve melee's defenses against damage reflection - broken or not.

Sidenote: I agree damage reflection should be capped, but it should be a fixed value, not a percentage of your health, because then it would benefit those that have the least health - that would make no sense.
It should be a reasonable value that can only 3-shot you or something.

Ranged classes already have remote skill options.
Melee classes don't - not in a way that even remotly works.
Because even if you change from physical to elemental skill in order to better survive, the loss of a great portion of your life leech kinda defeats the purpose.

Melee need to be better at moving around, and withstanding damage while attacking, since they don't have the means to avoid damage while dealing damage like ranged do.

Again, as I said before, increasing melee BASE survivability will indirectly improve melee damage because by requiring less investment into defensive passives, you can invest more into offensive passives.
---

So, my conclusion is that Balls of Steel (placeholder name) should not only reduce damage taken, but also increase movement speed.

"

Nurvus wrote:

The reason I disagree with giving melee superior DPS, is because it would eventually make melee the best farmers - at least in specific maps - due to the highest damage potential - and wouldn't improve melee's defenses against damage reflection - broken or not.

if you value "best farmer" below "best against reflected damage," something is wrong with your priority system. an arpg is farming, period

and yes, i do want melee to be the best farmers. they take more risks by having to get close. they deserve it.

"

Nurvus wrote:

Sidenote: I agree damage reflection should be capped, but it should be a fixed value, not a percentage of your health, because then it would benefit those that have the least health - that would make no sense.
It should be a reasonable value that can only 3-shot you or something.

rate would be capped; the amount reflected would stay constant, just like how life leech works. oh, and ci would use life as if it didn't have ci. so yes, es characters would have a low rate... but since the same total damage, a much longer duration... which means more time without es cooldown recovery. the exception would be ghost reaver people; the max rate becomes 20% of your es per second. it all works out

"

Nurvus wrote:

Ranged classes already have remote skill options.
Melee classes don't - not in a way that even remotly works.

i cannot think of a single good reason why melee attacks cannot be supported with trap

"

Nurvus wrote:

So, my conclusion is that Balls of Steel (placeholder name) should not only reduce damage taken, but also increase movement speed.

first off, the entire suggestion is excessively complicated. melee shouldnt require a slide rule to play

second, the balls are way too close in function to endurance charges, which are already overcomplicated in how they interact with armour. your suggestion is like xzibit saying we like endurance charges, so here's some endurance charges to go with our endurance charges

third, survivability isn't the real issue, killspeed is, because melee should be at least as fast as ranged in a farming contest, due to the extra risks it takes

forth, you have too much ego invested in your suggestion and you're letting this become personal instead of looking at the problem objectively