Please don't ruin POE2 by trying to appeal to POE1 zoom gamers.

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SilentSymphony#3358 wrote:

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Jizade#2063 wrote:

POE1 zoom gamers is why POE2 exists!! it was them who supported the game and it was them who remained long time loyal players and bought supporter packs every league over the years!! where were all of you!!??? you owe the existence of this game to them!!

If i were to word it like...

"keep zoom in balance with non zoom"

Would that be acceptable to you?




I think the major problem here is that in PoE1 the balance between the two was disrupted and it was difficult to course correct and some fear this may happen again in PoE2.

That's not what OP said though. They spesifically told GGG not to look back, not to care about what PoE1 players would want and that poe1 players are less sophisticated than the wider audience. Did so in a very splitting and excluding manner.

If anything, PoE offered the choise to go extremely slow if you wanted that experience. The option to remove attack/cast speed gems, the option to not pick speed nodes. Its success has very much been based on a wide variety of playstyles, choises.The end game could be very zoomy if that was the goal, but only a very small % of players ever got to that stage. Claiming millions of players would join if they ignore PoE1 and never look back is flat out a lie. Accessability was never hindered by end game builds. There was other issues early game what made it less an option for a lot of people. Complexity, high learning curve, unituitive systems, lackluster ingame information, loot issues etc.

The zoomer you replied to is also in the wrong for the same reason. Sure, zoomers is a part of poe1 but claiming they singlehandedly brought the game here is just dishonest at best. We were all a part of PoE slow and fast players. It is equally wrong not catering to either type and anything between. Thus GGG should look back and use that knowledge to bring us all into loving PoE2.

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Jizade#2063 wrote:

POE1 zoom gamers is why POE2 exists!! it was them who supported the game and it was them who remained long time loyal players and bought supporter packs every league over the years!! where were all of you!!??? you owe the existence of this game to them!!

this is a very arguable point and one I don't agree with. POE1 got popular because they consistently kept adding things to do to a game with a lot of depth and hype and a strong steaming presence that BTW mostly aren't Cute_Dog and Emperion types and by in large are Hard core SSF or moderately fast guys like Ziggy, Pohx and Mathil.

D4 doesn't have clear speed meta and is arguably a much larger game among its mostly casual audience. Obviously POE is a more popular and deep game in the space that counts to you and me: hard core gamers those of us that agree that D4 is in fact bad.

What I'm saying is; conflating clear speed with POE1's success is very arguable. Including the fact that POE1 was ramping in popularity before the clear speed meta took hold. In fact before Vaal spark/FB and BackedChicken was even a thing POE1 was trending upward with each new league.

There's even a decent argument to be made that with more comprehensible combat and authentic feel, POE1 might have kept more D3 players who instead (like Rhykker, Hudy Joe and company) basically bounced off of POE, maybe even more D2 players, MrLlamaSC famously bounced off of POE because (paraphrasing) "silly feeling and overly fast clear speed" this is a guy who's bread and butter was teleporting through walls and dropping blizzards speed running D2 ladders lol.

I don't understand people. You play the game to eventually become fast and have good clear speed, movement speed, etc.

How can you expect to completely convert a majority of your playerbase into a slow-paced game if you conditioned them throughout the years to zoom-type gameplay that is highly addictive and makes you feel like a God. I haven't played PoE 2 yet so I'll reserve judgement for now but the gameplay doesn't look very fast at all and the devs themselves said they toned it down so I don't understand what you will actually be striving for once you reach endgame.

If you want to play a slow game that infuriates you, play Dark Souls (I HATE dark souls other than Elden Ring)

If PoE 2 is slow, op-gated, and overly nerfed similar to ruthless mode, I'll personally stick with PoE 1 for the fast gameplay until the novelty of PoE 2 wears off.

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MLGonthorian#4568 wrote:

I don't understand people. You play the game to eventually become fast and have good clear speed, movement speed, etc.

I think its a matter of how much is too much. The current game distorts into something completely unrecognizable as combat. Cause and effect become "button make pretty flashes and dumpters rain down almost entirely worthless trash" there's no resemblance to physical reality.

Watch Empy stream and tell me his screen doesn't look like some sort of fake joke game is being played.


Personally I play ARPG's (almost all of them far slower than POE) for D&D style hack and slash combat, progression and loot. Unfortunately POE is the most deep and content rich ARPG that also at endgame degenerates into not remotely that thing because GGG didn't keep the game under control and catered to the zoom later in the games development.

Then they split POE2 off to be its own game ENTIRELY because they wanted the game to have ARPG combat instead of space ship shooter combat.

also I'd like to point out: when the best skills explode whole screens instantly:

all new skills have to explodes screens instantly or they're dead on arrival.

THis is known as "design space" in industry terms. Or a lack of it in POE terms. The games designers have no where to go when 1 button explodes a screen. There's just different colors and sounds doing the same things all competing to be that 1 button.

I've watched POE1 degenerate into that and I very much hope GGG has learned their lessons about that.

PoE started gaining (a lot of) players when the zoom zoom playstyle was becoming a thing. Its the zoom zoom playstyle that has mass appeal in PoE, not the D2 clone playstyle. Personally I dont like zoom zoom either.

Yes, current POE 1 has like no skill in actual combat. The game is a build check pretty much. If your build is strong enough you're always at 100% health and most monsters drop dead in one hit. If you're not good enough then you die in 0.04 seconds.

There's a diffrence between fast-paced but still engaging and skillful gameplay and Vampire Survivors brainrot. POE 1 is now closer to VS.

one of the most enjoyable thing in poe for me is the progression of the feefing ingame.

1- start on the beach and hit-n-run style where need to 3/4 hit monster
2- next to 1 shoot white
3- to 1 shoot blue
4- to 1 shoot pack
5- run and one shoot everything.

start with hit and run for finaly not fliker, but 50%+ move speed + dash

some of my best experience so far is build with 100% move speed + dash with strong dps and phasing ofc.

the progression curve of the feeling is amazing.

btw if you don't like it , no prob just don"t use build who did.
but not start to block poeple who like it.

and 2° btw, when poe start there a lot less speed, same for poe 2.

(my 50 cts)

one thing will determine if POE2 will be the same screen-clear zoom-zoom or not: loot

if you need to drop 500000 items to get one that is semi-relevant to you (to use or to sell or as a crafting mat) - then you need corresponding mob count

if you need to kill the same number of mobs as in POE1 but it takes 20 times longer, nobody is going to play this game as it is going to be a slog and a bot-fest


second thing is - no matter how romantic it sounds, POE is not Dark Souls, never will be. the cinematic trailer gameplay and interviews is just that - show and promises.

it looks fine, maybe it is enjoyable to watch. but if you are to meticulously and slowly kill 300 mobs per map to drop jack shit.. nobody is going to play this game.


the end state of character development is going to be automation, speed and damage output - same as in POE because it is what the primary gameplay loop demands: kill stuff to get loot and you need lots of loot to progress (via drops, trade or crafting - it is expected that while crafting is encouraged the actually GOOD crafting shit is going to be very rare)

and i find it highly amusing and naive to think that people given the option are going to use more than one skill for one task. if no cooldowns, people will always, ALWAYS gravitate to one, best, option for generic use. unless you are a summoner or can cast spells with duration that you can layer - there is no need for more than one skill because you can have only one active skill dealing damage

yep, bosses, yada yada. maybe. nobody switches from Ground Slam to Heavy Strike for bosses. it is just not worth it and if GGG overdoes that it will end up comical instead of engaging


oh and about 'millions' - hype is cool, but out of these million players significant % wont even install the game, like half will drop in few days and youll end up with the more-or-less the same demographic as POE has. there is limited number of people who can spend this much time on a game that arent already addicted to different game in different genre. POE2 wont make people who are not gamers into gamers. it is a zero sum situation where any wrong move is costly. and arpgs are a NICHE, not mainstream. even in D2 times arpgs players were a tiny subset.

we gonna be zoomin pew pew