"Doubling melee attack costs for slams" is the most unnecessary balance change ever.

I didn't say anything about a "melee only issue". Only that those things weren't a melee issue until 3.25. Sure some people used them anyway to squeze in that last 10% aura for 95% reservation but i've played dozens of melee builds of all varieties and never had to use them.

Casters are supposed to deal with mana as a resource. GGG stated that clearly. Melee was supposed to deal with accuracy. But now melee has to deal with both.

Which brings me to my initial question. Why was it neccessary to make those things (or other solutions like Blood magic) mandatory for melee? But you obviously can't answer that. Maybe go and ask those best players in the game about it?

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

I didn't say anything about a "melee only issue". Only that those things weren't a melee issue until 3.25. Sure some people used them anyway to squeze in that last 10% aura for 95% reservation but i've played dozens of melee builds of all varieties and never had to use them.

Id like to see the "dozens of melee builds" but unfortunately, welp we wont bother with that one.

And this entire thread is about it being for "slams" and I dont see a single mention of it not being just about slams from you, but actually agreeing with the OP.

So ....

yea you did!

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Casters are supposed to deal with mana as a resource. GGG stated that clearly. Melee was supposed to deal with accuracy. But now melee has to deal with both.

Find me where this was said please. I would like to know when and under what context not some second hand "ggg said this".

You said "GGG stated clearly", show me the money on that one.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Which brings me to my initial question. Why was it neccessary to make those things (or other solutions like Blood magic) mandatory for melee? But you obviously can't answer that. Maybe go and ask those best players in the game about it?

They arent though. Okay really quick, look at my build, since I dont.. well we wont go there, I wont tell you how to scale it or what boxes to check but just look.

Blood magic is 100% in every shape or form not required.

Look at it hommie, 50% is covered by pride if I take eternal blessing and blood magic off. Thats it!

Why do I use it currently you may ask?

Because:
1) I dont have the unveil crafts yet
2) I dont have the rings/rest of my gear I would need, to use the unveil crafts
3) I have specced into a whopping --->0<--- reservation efficiency nodes.
4) reserved...
5) more reserved...
6) I dont need blood magic, and if it REALLY came down to it, I could use enduring mana. I dont need the silly Sulphur flask get real.
7) If I did go with enduring mana then, I am already NOT automating 6 cries? + My slam + frost blink for danger. My hands are already busy, I dont want to press ANOTHER button.

So just my build alone, which is a combination of Steel and Alkaizers... mostly Alkaizers. Does not follow the whole "need blood magic" idea. It really does not.

I only use it currently because I prefer to not run, probably 25% mana, with another button and another aura. I have enough damage, literally finished my first T17 on this garbage setup. Check my challenge if you dont believe me.

Ill just make the swap to mana when I have all the stuff I need.


Through all of this I dont see a single problem with this. Not only do I have more than enough mana to not "require" blood magic. But there is 0 damage or survivability issues with this.

Later on, I will be reverting back to mana end game with an even more powerful build. Which generally the mana cost rings are intended as they are END game crafts. These are on finished builds.

If we want to get into the broader idea of mana being an issue, sure. But it effects EVERY BUILD/Archetype IN THIS GAME, its silly and I dont like it. But we have to have a damper on our power somehow.

I wholeheartedly agree with Mashgesture in this current discussion, I should have been worded my post better. I have nothing more to add or say at this point. thanks for contributing to discussion extensively by the way @mashgesture

People thought melee would get better without a catch, you guys are funny.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

And this entire thread is about it being for "slams" and I dont see a single mention of it not being just about slams from you, but actually agreeing with the OP.

So ....

yea you did!

This topic being about slams <> problem applies only to slams. Do you even lack this basic level of reading comprehension? The problem concerning slams as a subgroup does NOT mean that it's the only group concerned. So no, i didn't.

"

Find me where this was said please. I would like to know when and under what context not some second hand "ggg said this".

You can use google just like i can, if you wanna know go look for it. Was probably in a baeclast or a dev manifesto. Maybe around the last time accuracy and mana got a rework? You can start there. Thankfully I am not responsible for your education.

Rest of your post is strawman again. Nobody said blood magic is mandatory, just that some sort of solution for those newly created mana problems is mandatory. BM is just an example. Again, sub groups... i know difficult concept to comprehend. Also nice of you to admit that you can't even make your own melee build, having to copy from streamers but acting like a big shot here. Figures.


Nice 180° btw @ OP

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

This topic being about slams <> problem applies only to slams. Do you even lack this basic level of reading comprehension? The problem concerning slams as a subgroup does NOT mean that it's the only group concerned. So no, i didn't.

It was this post and a combination of posts of "melee sucks this..." and "melee sucks that..." you chime in to defend constantly.

This post originally is about "melee attack costs for slams"

And you come in here to defend it.

You even said this to attempt to insult me:

"

If you had any actual experience with melee you'd know that melee builds used to reserve most of their mana in 3.24 and before as well WITHOUT having to expend so much effort on fixing mana issues. You didn't even need - mana cost rings before. 50-60 open mana and a mana leech node used to be enough.

So,

Yea, you did!

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

You can use google just like i can, if you wanna know go look for it. Was probably in a baeclast or a dev manifesto. Maybe around the last time accuracy and mana got a rework? You can start there. Thankfully I am not responsible for your education.

So... it wasnt clearly then? do you ... do you look at what you type?

"

Casters are supposed to deal with mana as a resource. GGG stated that clearly. Melee was supposed to deal with accuracy.

So, source: trust me bro.

No.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Rest of your post is strawman again.

You keep repeating this word. I dont think you know what strawman means, because you misuse it.

Strawman for example:
Person 1: "I think melee has issues"
Person 2: "Well you just hate anyone that's melee? You're a melee hater"


I give you specific, evidence based, examples contrary to your point about requiring bloodmagic. Look heres your post about it too

"

Which brings me to my initial question. Why was it neccessary to make those things (or other solutions like Blood magic) mandatory for melee?

I provide you with evidence contrary to it, thats not a strawman.

Thats facts.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Nice 180° btw @ OP

Are you kidding me right now?

Op was given information and looked at things more critically and aknowledged they should have approached something different and you see this as like... a weakness?

Its okay to be wrong.


Good for you @canercetin nice discussion.

I didnt even see the last part of his rant post thats getting reported. Wow

I still stand by my point, no 180s here, and Mash doesn’t disagree with any of us, they are trying to come to a common point of sense. As I said I am out of discussion between you two so go on.

…

"

I provide you with evidence contrary to it, thats not a strawman.

You provide "evidence" to contradict arguments i didn't make. That's the prime example of a strawman.

I mentioned in multiple posts already that there are plenty of options to deal with this problem (BM being one, crafts another and there is a bunch more) so you bringing up "evidence" of streamers solving it is just waste of air.

Anyway i am not going to participate in a quote war with a guy that lacks in reading comprehension so have fun with your strawmans but do it without me.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

I provide you with evidence contrary to it, thats not a strawman.

You provide "evidence" to contradict arguments i didn't make. That's the prime example of a strawman.

I mentioned in multiple posts already that there are plenty of options to deal with this problem (BM being one, crafts another and there is a bunch more) so you bringing up "evidence" of streamers solving it is just waste of air.

Anyway i am not going to participate in a quote war with a guy that lacks in reading comprehension so have fun with your strawmans but do it without me.

I mean yea if you arent going to answer quotes about the things you say maybe dont say them at all.

You form your own opinion on whatever you think is required for melee, as you clearly have, thats fine.

But against a literal glance at many other builds, theres little support for it.

So to to quote what you say as it seems appropriate for you:

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Just goes to show your complete lack of knowledge on the matter. If you had any actual experience with melee