Witchest witch defenses

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jsuslak313 wrote:

He will stand on his hill and pick apart every little thing either of us says because that's what he does. He isn't interested in understanding our point.

That's unfortunately correct, because he still doesn't understand the point we are making.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Energy_shield

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Energy shield is a form of defence that acts as an additional hit point pool on top of life. Along with armour and evasion, energy shield is one of the three defence types that can implicitly appear on equipment. Unlike life, energy shield will recharge naturally after the character has not taken any damage for 2 seconds.

The point we are trying very hard to make, and you keep misinterpreting, is that ES is a type of defense that acts like life. Life and ES absorbs damage, while other types of defenses mitigate based on these two. Again, ES doesn't mitigate damage, it just goes on top of life acting as prioritary hit pool. Nothing else.

So let's make it painfully clear: ES is a defense layer that behaves like a secondary hit pool and not a form of mitigation as every other defense mechanism.

Side note:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Energy Shield is literally a shield around the character that absorbs damage so your life doesn't have to. How is that any less "outside the character" than, say, armour?

Getting ES is as much "outside the character" as getting more life on gear. Literally anything else you get besides the base life is outside the character.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

So let's make it painfully clear: ES is a defense layer that behaves like a secondary hit pool and not a form of mitigation as every other defense mechanism.

This. You can't have 20k ES with no regen, no recovery, no leech.
Same as you can't have 20k Life with no regen, no recovery, no leech.
The difference is ES can have recharge, faster start - recovers naturally if you don't get hit.
Other than that it does nothing.... it's just a pool that if you're not filling up, or preventing it from becoming empty.... it just becomes empty and you die.

You have to combine these pools with something, pure ES as in nothing else, isn't functional enough to keep you alive.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

The point we are trying very hard to make, and you keep misinterpreting, is that ES is a type of defense that acts like life.

At no point have I misinterpreted this, or said anything to the contrary. I’m not new to the game, I know how ES works. I completely understand the concept that it “works like life”. There is no conflict here.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Again, ES doesn't mitigate damage

Well, I disagree, and already gave the explanation. Mitigating something means making it less intense, damaging etc (including eliminating it entirely, which would be, you know, 100% less intense). It doesn’t matter how it is mitigated, there are many different ways to mitigate things. In POE, what we’re interested in mitigating damage to (in order to not die) is Life. Having ES mitigates damage to life, by totally absorbing that damage until ES is depleted.

Your position seems to be that if something “absorbs”, it can’t be “mitigating”. I don’t agree with that at all; multiple descriptions can be applied to one subject. Trees can be green and tall, cars can be red and fast. We don’t have to pick only one category for anything to go in. ES mitigates by absorbing; that is clearly different to armour or evasion but that’s okay, it doesn’t make it not mitigation. You can accept that you and I interpret the word “mitigate” differently, or not, as you please.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Well, I disagree, and already gave the explanation. Mitigating something means making it less intense, damaging etc (including eliminating it entirely, which would be, you know, 100% less intense). It doesn’t matter how it is mitigated, there are many different ways to mitigate things. In POE, what we’re interested in mitigating damage to (in order to not die) is Life. Having ES mitigates damage to life, by totally absorbing that damage until ES is depleted.

This try of a separation does not make sense sorry. In that sense life mitigates damage same way ES does. You completely lost me last page already but continuing to die on this hill does not make sense anymore.

if people go into philosophical discourse:

for the purpose of the game only one thing matters: your last HP point. everything else defends that last hitpoint. once it is gone - you die.

so the hp pool is your defense, ES is defense, EV is defense - everything you do to not loose that last hit point is defense. (ill ignore mechanics scaling on life pool size). ES is a buffer, it goes up and down absorbing damage, preventing life loss. dont try to make it a binary choice between avoidance or mitigation - it is artificial, lexical discussion



and back to the OP: i believe ES with recharge, when built around it is good enough as a playstyle to beat every content in the game. and because noone stops you from using life + ES, you end up with ~9000 HP/ES, where ES recharges constantly (faster start) and quickly, allowing you to top up the life pool if needed

ive done all content with such setup, not using any 'tricks' - it is fine (albeit expensive due to noone using such gear)

it is obviously better once proped with 'tricks' - but any witch ascendancy going for all rare gear and proper tree is workable and valid choice. ive done that. it isnt the strongest choice, but neither is champion unless you stack aura effect trough the roof

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zzang wrote:

This try of a separation does not make sense sorry. In that sense life mitigates damage same way ES does.

I don’t see the logic there. ES can mitigate damage to life, because it is not life: ES can be used up without reducing life. Life cannot mitigate damage to life in the same way, because if life takes the damage…then damage to life clearly wasn’t mitigated.

Either way, you don’t need to apologise for disagreeing.

For a characters death the only thing that matters is life. Your life can't go below 1 or you are dead. Nobody cares if your ES is zero. That's the big difference and why ES is considered a defense, it defends your life against damage.

That said, increasing your life pool beyond 1 life is technically also a defense. More HP = more defense. Defense isn't just mitigation and avoidance.

All 3 global defenses work differently, armor is mitigation, evasion is avoidance and ES is extra buffer but all 3 are forms of defense.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I don’t see the logic there. I don’t agree with that at all; multiple descriptions can be applied to one subject.

You are in your right to not agree, doesn't make you right, though.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Receiving_damage

ES and life are resources that absorb(take) damage. Other defenses are mechanics that mitigate(prevent) damage. Your own opinion or interpretation of those two words are meaningless when the game clearly states how those two work in the game.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I don’t see the logic there. I don’t agree with that at all; multiple descriptions can be applied to one subject.

You are in your right to not agree, doesn't make you right, though.

Yes, that goes for everyone. I’m not here to convince you of anything.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

ES and life are resources that absorb(take) damage. Other defenses are mechanics that mitigate(prevent) damage. Your own opinion or interpretation of those two words are meaningless when the game clearly states how those two work in the game.

This has already been addressed.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

This has already been addressed.

I know. Me and everyone else made clear what "mitigation" and "absorption" means. It's just a truly strange hill to die on...