Witchest witch defenses

Can we talk about the witch? And her vanilla pure intelligence defenses?

How come that the best non glass cannon intelligence builds are templar (and trickster to some extent)? We have hierophant which is very successful on mind over matter, like, you dont do non templar MoM build; inquisitor is also great for small and large amounts of es, small es works well with pious path and large amounts of es works well with in stacking righteous providence. If you go with ES on templar it is more convenient to use aegis aurora, divine shield and armour/es hybrid masteries when adding armor on that es.

On other hand if you go trickster, it is quite solid on this all ghost dance stuff, ascendancy supports it really well. If recharge is ever going to be used it is best to use it here on trickster, thou i see a tendency to pick es leech branch instead. Trickster is often used as int stacking platform to also get obscene amounts of es.

Now we have witch. Hierophant robbed her of MoM, inquisitor is awesome int stacker and also really good with low es. Recharge on its own super garbago, better couple it with evasion and pick trickster instead. So, what we have left? What do we have if we try to roleplay as witchest witch and go for pure es with no nonsense int/mana stacking, all ES rares, discipline, CI- forgive my French, but it dies in nano second.

Why does it suck so hard? Why we cant have witchest witch and leave armor and evasion tech candies alone, MoM also seems like its not her deal either. What does she have left? Curses maybe? Minions?

I think we really need some sort of keystone which disables ar/ev in favor of buffing es in some way. Or ascendancy buffs. I havent yet brewed a solid idea of how to do it, just some general ideas floating like reduced damage taken, more es is probably a little less good, or some hex infused shield tech. Int stacking should also be disabled for this if it makes issues.

Probably most basic solution would be a keystone which disables int from es, disables ar and ev, gives more es or reduces damage taken and then for recovery smth like "recharge ignores interruption if hit is less than 25%".

dude.....if you are talking witch as a CLASS and not specific ascendancies...

The WITCH is one of the single greatest defensive classes available in the game. It can do EVERYTHING, armor, evasion, SS, block, ES, etc. It can get built in immunities, regen like crazy, get flat and % reductions on both elemental and physical damages.

No other class even compares to the versatility of the witch lol. I am not entirely sure how YOU'VE been playing it....

It might not be the BEST in every single category, but it is pretty nearly the second-best in ALL categories of defense. That is insane. Difference being that, with the other classes you mention, if you DON'T go their best route they are complete trash at every single other defense.

It is the BEST class in the game for block and recovery (maybe regen <es>, not recovery <trickster might win this>). It is the BEST class in the game for damage avoidance altogether with minion play and block. It is comparable in power to a freaking JUGGERNAUT when it comes to physical and elemental mitigation via minions and/or prismatic shield thingy.

I probably should have been more clear here, i meant "if you go pure es with all rares and no int or mana stacking" it doesnt really work, it is a you say you have to pick smth else and imo it is missed opportunity. I think it would be great if pure es no int/mana stacking witch would be more viable.

Necro is good, yeah, because of offerings, but its not for everyone.

Necro was just one example, but Elementalist is another, or a COMBO of the two. Occultist has recovery for dayz, free immunities, and a crapton of chaos resistance.

You could take what you just said about the basicbasicbasic witch, and apply it to literally any other similar mechanic on any other class (life and/or mana) and it would still hold true.

The THREE hp pools we have are: ES, Life, and Mana. No matter what, on their own, they do not work regardless of class. Witch is no different in this regard than any other class.

Pure life with nothing else? Garbage
Pure mana MoM with nothing else? Garbage
Pure ES with nothing else? Garbage

No difference between the three

Noo.. 🙂 i dont agree.
There is difference and quite large. With armor you have easy access to end charges, molten shell then there is damage shifts coupled with "armor applies to that shifted damage" which is really strong.

Ev is kinda worse, but it has suppression, blind, enfeeble double dips on it, less useful but still an options is kintsugi, blade dancer keystone (or how it is called).

Armor + es has really solid options too.


No nothing pure life can work too with defiance of destiny. But it still most definitely will have something more to it.

Meanwhile i dont think anything supports pure es. Just frost shield i guess.

You are conflating different things. How can you possibly compare "Pure ES no int" to something like ev, armour, block, etc. They are completely different entities. And you aren't even comparing them correctly....

And again.....each one individually with NOTHING ELSE (as per your argument) is totally useless. Evasion by itself? Useless. Armour by itself? Useless. Resistances by themselves? Useless. Avoidance of any kind by itself? Useless.

High life pool by itself (this is YOUR example)? Comparable with every option available to all characters.

With respect, you are completely wrong on this. You are comparing apples to oranges, and comparing layers that don't "naturally" occur with something that you (rightly) say "naturally" occurs.

Armor + easy access to end charges = TWO separate mechanics, and not even true at that......every class has pretty darn easy access to endurance charges in some way.

Molten Shell = available to EVERYONE regardless of build, AND it protects everything.....ES AND life.

Damage shifts: again.....applies to EVERYTHING regardless of whether you are life-based or ES-based.

EV does not just "have" suppression: again you are layering multiple mechanics and comparing that to a SINGLE isolated mechanic. Witches can run with pure ES AND SS, Blind, Enfeeble, etc. Witches can ALSO run with ES/EV hybrid.

Armor + ES: again....LAYERED defenses and both of which the witch (ha) excels at.



Your post was asking "Why is the witch's most BASIC defense mechanic (ES ONLY, pure int) so bad?". Insert any singular defense in the GAME into that same statement.....and it's still true. Any ONE defense by itself is garbage. In fact, you aren't even right about ES: it is the BEST "single" defense the game has to offer, with the highest possible ehp value on the cheapest investment.

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Andrius319 wrote:

Noo.. 🙂 i dont agree.
There is difference and quite large. With armor you have easy access to end charges, molten shell then there is damage shifts coupled with "armor applies to that shifted damage" which is really strong.

Ev is kinda worse, but it has suppression, blind, enfeeble double dips on it, less useful but still an options is kintsugi, blade dancer keystone (or how it is called).

Armor + es has really solid options too.


No nothing pure life can work too with defiance of destiny. But it still most definitely will have something more to it.

Meanwhile i dont think anything supports pure es. Just frost shield i guess.

You don't agree, then proceed to pair everything with something else.

Unless you mean "phys taken as", which ES can use too, same with suppression, you must mean Transcendence, which is worthless if you don't completely build around.

Chaos Innoc is literally an ES node.

You might want to learn the game a bit better before trying to suggest a few important things to be changed.

Thats the thing. You can pair armor, ev etc with something they are supported well in the game, but for pure es it is not the case.

Tell me, what do you pair pure es with which is exclusive to pure es or works best with pure es?

(I have included phys taken as near armor because it has synergy with it when you have armor applies to it).

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Andrius319 wrote:

Thats the thing. You can pair armor, ev etc with something they are supported well in the game, but for pure es it is not the case.

Tell me, what do you pair pure es with which is exclusive to pure es or works best with pure es?

(I have included phys taken as near armor because it has synergy with it when you have armor applies to it).

What the heck do you even mean?! This was answered already.

Pure ES paired with block, armour, evasion, phys taken as, CI, etc.

Anything you can pair life to, you can pair ES to.

I'm not sure YOU even understand what you are trying to ask at this point....

I will clarify again:

1) There are THREE "lifepools": Life, Mana (via MoM), and ES
2) There are THREE "main" defenses: Armour, Evasion, Resistances
3) There are MANY supplemental mitigation defenses: %phys taken as, endurance charges, Spell Suppression...
4) There are MANY supplemental avoidance mechanics: block, dodge, etc...
5) There are MANY recovery mechanics: recovery on block, regen, leech, etc.

These are all SEPARATE "pure" mechanics you can choose (one from each category).

few leagues ago ive tried this theory - i think it was just after GGG added 'recharge start' to core pool of ES items and the result was that it was MUCH stronger than expected BUT it required some tight gearing

rare gear set with:
ES (T1-T2 only, double rolls)
ES recharge start (body, shield, T1 rolls only)
int wherever possible
life (optional but take it)

and clusters:
Unnatural Calm
Essence Surge
Arcane Focus
Melding
Foresight
Essence Infusion
Insightfulness

results in ~5500-7000 ES(depending on gear ofc), 0,8sec ES recharge start and 5300 ES recharge (3600 with Wicked Ward) + 4000 life from circumstantial life nodes/life rolls

this is A LOT for a character that plays FAR from any danger. it is also a base where each 'trick' you add is a solid multiplier

.8 recharge start delay is actually very comfortable ONCE YOU GET USED TO PLAY along, charging head first is a suicide

then the ascendancies:

Occultist has Vile Bastion, outright recovery bomb
Necro has Essence Gluton, another recovery bomb
Elementalist has golem nodes. 4 nodes but they are well worth it with recent changes. Chaos golem alone dealing with 20%+ phys damage, stone golem recovering 1500es/sec with Zealot's Oath etc etc. if not golems, then chill seriously makes game much easier

also - what is on the tree: +Curse. Temp Chains+Enfeeble is a great defensive tool if you need one and Witch can actually get there without 3*gold anoint.

the playstyle requires some using to but i think the tools are there - if very expensive (vaal regalia with 2*T1 ES, int, faster start is expensive..). problem is that it doesnt work with mid-tier items, but with high-end it quite cool