New Weapon Types / Changes

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Nurvus wrote:

Japhasca, I'm talking of pretty strong, well-known and enjoyed archetypes.

Scythes and Spears are awfully under-represented in most settings.
They make extremely good weapons.

I know what you were trying to do and I like some of what you suggested. There are a ton of historic melee and ranged weapons throughout the world, and the short list of polearms I gave is but a handful of European spears. In truth, they were mostly used in different manners; I wouldn't honestly expect to see a video game depict this though.

For any weapon class, it's far more interesting to lump similar weapons together for the fun names you get rather than go, "X longsword, Y longsowrd, Z longsword," etc. so I was playing a bit of devil's advocate.

One point, though: the scythe we so often see as a weapon in video games would only have been used that way by peasants in an emergency, and it was ineffective. War scythes turned the blade parallel to the pole, turning it more-or-less into a pole arm. Here is a good picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polish_scythemen_1863.PNG

While the typical image of a scythe with the blade around 90 degrees looks badass, it's completely wrong for combat.

(EDIT: Before anyone ask why the typical depiction of the scythe is wrong for combat usage, it's an issue of mechanics. The sharp part of the blade is pointed in towards the user and faced perpendicular to the staff. The user has to (without being blocked in front) swing the pole out to the side of the foe, getting the blade past him, then swing back and inward to even attempt to hurt the foe's opposite-facing side.
This is fine for reaping grass, but not against a foe who could easily block any of these movements at little to no risk to himself, or wait for the blade to get behind him and just run forward and stab the crap out of the scythe-wielder.)

Japhasca, weapons in fantasy games are as good as their "potential", not their historical facts.

Scythes - the way "peasants" used them historically - don't live up to the awesomeness they have in most fantasy settings.

However, it doesn't mean we (humans) used them to their limits.

For example, the cutting side of Scythes doesn't have to be only on the inside of the blade.
The Scythes used by the farmers - exactly as they were used for farming - aren't proper for fighting.
But a scythe can be designed for fighting.

If I had to give a decent idea of how scythe fighting can be, just check out Zasalamel in Soul Calibor III. It is a pretty decent depiction of a realistic combat style revolving around scythes.
(Apart from the juggling, ofc).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4zvj1Pu6Bw

In my opinion, your argument fails mostly here:

Just because there aren't records of someone using Scythes particularly effectively, it didn't prevent the concept of the reaper to come forth as a scythe wielder.
Why give it a scythe if it's so weak?
Or is it?

This is a fantasy game, so use your imagination to make it work.

Agree?

The Grim Reaper has a scythe because he is "harvesting" souls, in the same way that farmers would harvest their crops. It's symbology. Which is not to say that I oppose impractical, fantasy weaponry, just that scythes are super impractical as weapons.

On the other hand, the game really could use a str based ranged weapon type. Something like javelins or a sack of rocks would be ideal.

Scythe is not as impractical as you may think, as shown in the Zasalamel video I linked.

I agree that fantasy-based games don't need to be bound in fact. Scythes look sweet and seem sweet, and I have no problem with that. I don't want to limit things based on realism--if I did so, most of Cloud's swords from FF7 are gone, and so is Sephiroth's 10-foot masamune. While that wouldn't kill those characters, it would take away a big part of their visual appeal.

My point was mainly a side note: real-life scythes are crappy weapons, and real-life war scythes are really just pole arms, so the idea that they are "effective" is faulty.

However, their concept is awesome, so I'm down with that. I should have been more clear that I was just countering with reality, but i have no problem with the fantasy of it.

However, as a class of its own, I do feel that scythes are pointless. They are honestly more sensible rolled into two-handed axes.

EDIT: To be fair though, I should point out that the video you linked is absurdly impractical. 2H weapons just don't move that fast. Half of the time the connecting portion is the end of the staff, not the blade, and the way it is being used, with the blade so close to the leading hand, nothing is being gained kinetically from the shaft or the two-handedness and the user would be much better off just using a shortsword or longsword and a shield, or a bastard sword or claidheim as a two-handed slashing weapon because at least then the user, if sufficiently strong, could use the weapon 2H or 1H leaving a free hand for grappling.

The issue is that the fulcrum (the leading hand) is directly next to the blade, so the potential energy gain of the weapon as a lever is destroyed. While the second hand further down the shaft provides more stability, the energy potential of the weapon is completely wasted in the stance shown. In layman's terms, it's exactly why we grip a hammer at the end when driving in nails; if we gripped it with even one hand next to the head, the energy output drops severely.

In other words, the way the character is using the scythe in the video you linked is honestly the worst way to get damage potential from a staff-based weapon.

If I would divide spears and polearms(pikes, halberds etc.), leaving polearms as you want and giving spears strong crit therefore making generic two-handed crit weapon.

Bumpity.

At least add Shurikens and Scythes, please.

Scythes can be placed alongside Axes, for all I care. Just do it!

Furthermore, answering to Japhasca, I think adding Naginata/Daikatana (2handed) and Katana/Wakizashi (1handed) wouldn't be a bad idea, but since Scimitar was added as a common one-handed sword, I don't see the point in establishing a differentiation in weapon effects based in culture, unless they also split Scimitar into its own "sword" category with its own implicit (like attack speed), just like Rapiers and their crit multiplier.

Right?

Don't you sometimes feel like you agree with everything you say?