3.24.2 Patch Notes

please remove mf gear from the game , thank you

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MLGonthorian wrote:

How are these people asking for mf & party play to be removed real? Is this something a streamer is pushing or something? What level-headed person would want to remove something actually good from the game? No one answered previously when I asked.

Party play with aurabots and such oversimplifies gameplay compared to the struggles of a solo player who has to build dmg and defence simultaneously. Problem became more noticeable with the introduction of T17 maps.

For this simplified gameplay - only follow each other around, no need to dodge anything, no need to worry about HH buffs and such - they get bonus that goes far beyond something that would just make party coordination worthwhile. They get insane multiplier that, when combined with something that can be abused, leads to profits that leaves solo players far behind. If 6-party are real people, they also loot faster than solo MF player. If it's multiboxing, cheater just reaps the profits alone, having advantage just because of having spare PC and twink setup.

I've heard many people saying things like "but man I played with 2 friends and we didn't shower in mirrors at all". Economy is wrecked not buy average joes who managed to fit a Ventor's Gamble in their build or just play with aurabot friend. When it's done _effectively_ , using the current best abuse strategy, dedicated traders (who are often bots btw), you have MASSIVE disparity between someone who is solo, MF or not, and party play.

To make things worse, these teams are more likely to be a group of nolifers, while solo players are more likely to be people with jobs. So you have parties who kill monsters all day, trading it all via trader or bot, doing that much more effectively than solo player, have loot multipliers (not additive with map/gear quant, multiplicative!) on top of that - and they affect all the economy and prices for people who just come to play after job. This is not fair.

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natural183 wrote:

"

MLGonthorian wrote:

How are these people asking for mf & party play to be removed real? Is this something a streamer is pushing or something? What level-headed person would want to remove something actually good from the game? No one answered previously when I asked.

Party play with aurabots and such oversimplifies gameplay compared to the struggles of a solo player who has to build dmg and defence simultaneously. Problem became more noticeable with the introduction of T17 maps.

For this simplified gameplay - only follow each other around, no need to dodge anything, no need to worry about HH buffs and such - they get bonus that goes far beyond something that would just make party coordination worthwhile. They get insane multiplier that, when combined with something that can be abused, leads to profits that leaves solo players far behind. If 6-party are real people, they also loot faster than solo MF player. If it's multiboxing, cheater just reaps the profits alone, having advantage just because of having spare PC and twink setup.

I've heard many people saying things like "but man I played with 2 friends and we didn't shower in mirrors at all". Economy is wrecked not buy average joes who managed to fit a Ventor's Gamble in their build or just play with aurabot friend. When it's done _effectively_ , using the current best abuse strategy, dedicated traders (who are often bots btw), you have MASSIVE disparity between someone who is solo, MF or not, and party play.

To make things worse, these teams are more likely to be a group of nolifers, while solo players are more likely to be people with jobs. So you have parties who kill monsters all day, trading it all via trader or bot, doing that much more effectively than solo player, have loot multipliers (not additive with map/gear quant, multiplicative!) on top of that - and they affect all the economy and prices for people who just come to play after job. This is not fair.

Couldn't agree more.

Party Play:
* Faster Clear
* Better Stats for all (Aurabots etc)
* Faster Item Picking
* MORE ITEMS / RARER ITEMS

Solo Play:
* Slower Clear
* Slower Item Pick Up
* Need to take care of own ass in terms of all stats before even being close to be able to get to T17s maps - Party Plays can do it much earlier if well organized.
* Economy dominated by couple of nolifers that gets all the benefits from doing parties, which you do not want to do, but you still want to play the game whilst considering it FAIR to all.

It's like, man, I understand there should be some motivation to do parties, but why not cap party bonus at additional 1 party member for duos with friends (Waaaaay more accessible to standard players / non-no-lifers - and then above that, there's no bonus to quant/rarity)

In summary:
If the party play inherently makes all characters within that party being able to handle content they are much less likely to handle without party and solo players are not able to handle without one (obviously, competitive advantage already) then why on earth would you give buff to a buff?

It's like, oh, if you decide to get buffed in party folks, we will buff you twice, so that it's all balanced. So that for your effort to get buffed, you get reward of being buffed again. And by the way, in 6 people parties you will be able to exploit the game, find our mistakes, capitalize on them 6 times faster than a solo player, and once you found all of these mistakes and problems ,we will nerf them so that standard player who just wants to enjoy the game after work will watch a youtube video, find out that there's this next OP strategy cuz of a streamer video, then log in to the game and find out it's already nerfed and then repeat the cycle 8 times, eventually quitting the league knowing that there's this guy who made all the currency he'll ever need before you actually played the content that's no longer available.

No wonder Player Count charts look the way they look. If you started 2 weeks into the league, it was already game over and you played a completely DIFFERENT game than those who started on day 1 - THAT should never be the case.

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natural183 wrote:

"

MLGonthorian wrote:

How are these people asking for mf & party play to be removed real? Is this something a streamer is pushing or something? What level-headed person would want to remove something actually good from the game? No one answered previously when I asked.

Party play with aurabots and such oversimplifies gameplay compared to the struggles of a solo player who has to build dmg and defence simultaneously. Problem became more noticeable with the introduction of T17 maps.

For this simplified gameplay - only follow each other around, no need to dodge anything, no need to worry about HH buffs and such - they get bonus that goes far beyond something that would just make party coordination worthwhile. They get insane multiplier that, when combined with something that can be abused, leads to profits that leaves solo players far behind. If 6-party are real people, they also loot faster than solo MF player. If it's multiboxing, cheater just reaps the profits alone, having advantage just because of having spare PC and twink setup.

I've heard many people saying things like "but man I played with 2 friends and we didn't shower in mirrors at all". Economy is wrecked not buy average joes who managed to fit a Ventor's Gamble in their build or just play with aurabot friend. When it's done _effectively_ , using the current best abuse strategy, dedicated traders (who are often bots btw), you have MASSIVE disparity between someone who is solo, MF or not, and party play.

To make things worse, these teams are more likely to be a group of nolifers, while solo players are more likely to be people with jobs. So you have parties who kill monsters all day, trading it all via trader or bot, doing that much more effectively than solo player, have loot multipliers (not additive with map/gear quant, multiplicative!) on top of that - and they affect all the economy and prices for people who just come to play after job. This is not fair.

And then those people have to split everything with 5 or more players. They don't really make any more than a solo person with equal skill set and time can do.

What you are complaining about isn't MF or party play, but people that are better than you and have more time to play. Those people are good for the rest of us, as without them many uniques become a lot more expensive as there are less of them.

They are GOOD for the economy, they keep those uniques at reasonable rates. Prices only crash when the league makes it too easy for everyone to make those kinds of farms, like the last two leagues.

There are plenty of other profitable strategies that do not involve MF or party play.

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Valsacar wrote:

And then those people have to split everything with 5 or more players. They don't really make any more than a solo person with equal skill set and time can do.

What you are complaining about isn't MF or party play, but people that are better than you and have more time to play.

These "git gut" takes are really ridiculous. I have more than enough experience/farmed currency to judge, even was an aurabot myself and I still don't realize why anyone would think that carry/aura setups require skill. Races and gauntlets require skill for sure, while party play requires only Discord.

Also pls stop propagating stupid things that people like PathofMatth said years ago, like "groups generate uniques for everyone" and such. Playerbase is more than half a million players now, not 10k, there will be enough uniques dropped for everybody even if party play is completely removed.

If anything, many people are qutting because things like HH is 9div, while at 200 div it would be an interesting chase goal, and this is only one example.

And they do really make more than solo even with split, that's the whole point. If they didn't, why would they even bother? Also I bet you didn't see how multibox players still plague the game, some are even streaming how 5 twinks conveniently follow them around on T17 map. Talk about skill sets

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natural183 wrote:

Also pls stop propagating stupid things that people like PathofMatth said years ago, like "groups generate uniques for everyone" and such. Playerbase is more than half a million players now, not 10k, there will be enough uniques dropped for everybody even if party play is completely removed.

If anything, many people are qutting because things like HH is 9div, while at 200 div it would be an interesting chase goal, and this is only one example.

So, it's your statement that these groups are not generating tons of global drop uniques. But at the same time, people are quitting because there's plenty of global drop uniques for everyone and the problem is party play. Pick a stance there, you can't have both.

Price of things like HH drop when there are plenty of them for everyone to have, like we have right now.

If there's no skill involved in party play, why aren't you doing it?

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Valsacar wrote:

So, it's your statement that these groups are not generating tons of global drop uniques. But at the same time, people are quitting because there's plenty of global drop uniques for everyone and the problem is party play. Pick a stance there, you can't have both.

I never said that parties don't generate uniques. My statement was that economy doesn't need parties to generate all needed uniques, as you can see with most of the boss-only uniques - no parties involved, most of them are affordable, some are very desirable and expensive, as it should be.

If party play is removed, and some hyped leaguestart uniques are 2 div instead of 1 div, I doubt that most people would see it as the reason to quit. In fact, maybe people would actually enjoy this prolonged leagueastart period.

People are quitting because, for example, having HH in the build is not an accomplishment right now. It's pog moment for many when they drop a Nurse on day 3, but now it's 8c card. Farming 95 div Mageblood is not really an interesting goal too.

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Valsacar wrote:

If there's no skill involved in party play, why aren't you doing it?

...because I don't want to? What is your point here, that party play is some pinnacle of skill that everyone should aspire to? It's boring asf
I just hate to see people leave, hate to see that the joy of an average player is being taken away from them. Majority of them doesn't need "affordable" HH, they need HH that is reasonably hard to get. It's not like HH is an alpha and omega of PoE, but there are not so many players who would say "I want to farm Original Sin just because it's pricey", or Nimis, or Progenesis, it's not that epic, not iconic.

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Valsacar wrote:

And then those people have to split everything with 5 or more players. They don't really make any more than a solo person with equal skill set and time can do.

Not fully true.
I for example are a solo player. I probably would die by just putting a T17 map into the device.

Currently I make like at max 1d an hour because I don't have an uber build.
If I had an Aurabot and a Cursebot running with me I could do T17 maps and we'd make probably about 30div an hour or more. Split this and everyone has 10 div an hour. That's 10 times of what I can make alone. Even if we had 3 more people in I'd make more than alone.

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Valsacar wrote:

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natural183 wrote:

Price of things like HH drop when there are plenty of them for everyone to have, like we have right now.

Price of things also drop when nobody buys them anymore.

All the party farmers/nolifers already have them (multiple of them) and all the casuals who would have buy them after working hard to get some currency in this "dried out of rewards before t17's" environment already left the league.

Steamcharts fact: actual player population average is around 33k. This represent 18% from the 187k peak at start, less than four weeks ago...
An 82% decrease in less than a month should speak volumes if there is anybody left to hear.

The feeling of being left behind, denied new discovered strategies by mid-league nerfs and the fact that old, simple, effective strategies like alch and go no longer works, were too overwhelming. But they were nerfing exploits u say? Ok then, if those were exploits why no consequence to the exploiters, or no compensations to the exploited?

I cant even start on the over-complicated, time consuming, charts/diagrams/horoscops consulting necessary to a somewhat succesful corpse craft process. Not to mention also the artificialy created stash starvation by the abundance of non-stackable corpses. Those spectres from previous league were like picking rare flowers compared to them.
And guess what is the weekend offer now: stashes.

Just my two cents. (or ten?)

As an afterthought, I wonder why we dont get anymore statistics about how many players completed how many challenges, or ascendancies played, or even how many players completed a t17 map (just solo, no party play or carry).

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Zenshii wrote:

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Valsacar wrote:

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natural183 wrote:

Price of things like HH drop when there are plenty of them for everyone to have, like we have right now.

Price of things also drop when nobody buys them anymore.

All the party farmers/nolifers already have them (multiple of them) and all the casuals who would have buy them after working hard to get some currency in this "dried out of rewards before t17's" environment already left the league.

Steamcharts fact: actual player population average is around 33k. This represent 18% from the 187k peak at start, less than four weeks ago...
An 82% decrease in less than a month should speak volumes if there is anybody left to hear.

The feeling of being left behind, denied new discovered strategies by mid-league nerfs and the fact that old, simple, effective strategies like alch and go no longer works, were too overwhelming. But they were nerfing exploits u say? Ok then, if those were exploits why no consequence to the exploiters, or no compensations to the exploited?

I cant even start on the over-complicated, time consuming, charts/diagrams/horoscops consulting necessary to a somewhat succesful corpse craft process. Not to mention also the artificialy created stash starvation by the abundance of non-stackable corpses. Those spectres from previous league were like picking rare flowers compared to them.
And guess what is the weekend offer now: stashes.

Just my two cents. (or ten?)

As an afterthought, I wonder why we dont get anymore statistics about how many players completed how many challenges, or ascendancies played, or even how many players completed a t17 map (just solo, no party play or carry).

Price of things drop when you have way less players left in the league (mostly those that felt f*cked over by the time all nerfs appeared and could not catch up) and supply of things exceeds demand. I.E all those party play / early exploiters pulled of all items to saturate the market, although due to the sudden capitulation of mid-tier / casual players this league (which, you correctly pointed at) there is just simply not enough demand to keep the prices at the right level.

ALSO, perhaps something I've noticed when me and me friend gave up this league, is the fact that mid-tier EQ in my opinion was way more difficult to get on week 2/3 approximately, which could perhaps lead to more players leaving (I would call it snowball effect), because the market kind of jumped from early stage, straight to HHs/MBs and all the "standard" sellers or mid-tier players already left the league and pulled their middle-finger. (at least that's how it felt like and what I would conclude looking at Steam Charts and POE population)


It would be really nice to get some official info from GGG as I believe, f*ck ups are alright, they do happen and stuff, but some of the heavy duty stuff should be really addressed and it should be in their interest to address them if they want loyal players and stable player-base.