Things that Last Epoch does better than POE.

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Turtledove wrote:

edit: BTW BillClinton48, you were the 42nd President and born in 46. What is the 48?

off topic for sure

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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plaguefear wrote:

In zero of those 15k+ hours did i ever think that the map rerolling system was anything but garbage.

If you TRULY think this....then you need some coaching in self awareness.

You would not spend 15k hours playing a game where you think that 99% of what you are doing for that time is garbage. It is absurd and impossible to even consider this a serious comment.

I mean....did you spend 15000 hours playing Acts 1 - 10, and then delving for all the rest of your time? Because if that is the case then maybe what you are saying would make some semblance of sense.

It really isn't worth my time discussing something like this with someone who appears to have no idea what they've been doing for the equivalent of years of uninterrupted time. Extreme hyperbole and a total lack of awareness doesn't make for a good starting point for meaningful discussion.

People simply do not put that level of time and energy into something they don't like doing. Unless they are getting paid. It just doesn't happen.

What a silly comment, i buy prerolled off tft.

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Warvald wrote:

I like Last epoch as much as the next player, but you have to be delusional to think it does EVERYTHING better.

Personally I like how to play how it feel and how it look way more in Last epoch. I also like their factions system, how loot work how crafting work.

But if you want to make stupid item? Last epoch don't allow it they are all pretty normal ( Which I think isn't a bad thing but im not a poe crafter )

You want big boss? it depend on what you like if its the loterry poe is better at it.

You want to push your map as much as possible poe does it better. Only thing LE as right now is corruption.

Basically the place where LE is weak is content which is easier to fix than all the 50 billions problem I have with poe.

Have you tried high level boss crafting, you can get best in slot uniques then combine them with stats from best in slot rares, i have some monsterous items.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Words have meaning, alhazred. You know this. Review-bombing implies a concerted effort to harm a publisher. This isn't that. A lot of individuals had a bad first experience with the game and thus wrote a bad review. The term with its connotation is a simple means to relativise the reviews as something you don't have to take seriously.

Also, people use this term and then use it as an excuse to belittle the reviewers. Among the more egregious ones were lines such as "welcome to gaming, must be your first launch" or "just play offline what's the deal".

Well, offline mode was one of the big selling points of Last Epoch but there's no way you can convert an offline character to an online one. If you want to use the Merchant's Guild feature (another big selling point of LE) you have to play online. If you want to play with your friends, you have to play online.

That means you'll have to start over once servers are stable, which sucks. Understandably this upset a lot of people.

Yeah anyway Semantics. Imagine judging every online game including POE permanently based on their rocky launch day. Does that do anyone any good after week 1 or 2? I mean in terms of finding ACTUAL useful opinions on the game?

Literally every MMO and ARPG would be considered garbage due to literally every online game having the same server/scaling issues. Sure over time it all agregates down into an average and generally speaking if the game isn't tiny and is actually at least decent it will rebound. But its atill obfuscating and ruining signal to noise making it harder to see actual reviews.

So yeah I say to review bombers: try to act like you've been to more than one dance in your life. I think thats reasonable given what "review" means to most gamers and what they're intended for.

There's a big difference in reasonableness between "I don't really like the game for x and y reasons, and the servers are a dumpster fire as is typical of online game launches but mostly I don't like x and y" from a guy with 20-100 hours versus something like: "I took work off because I'm a dumbass and now I'm lashing out emotionally like a child having a tantrum ZERO STARS" from someone with 1.5 hours. One is useful and the other is a temporary table flip that doesn't tell anyone about the actual game outside of it having some degree or another of exactly the same scaling issues as every other such launch.

Reviewing like this is just as useful for the intended purpose of a review as crying out that you ran out into traffic and are REALLY MAD THAT PEOPLE RAN INTO YOU WITH THEIR CARS.

The word review carries the same common vernacular word baggage as Review bombing and P2W. It has a meaning we all pretty much understand to mean more than the literal strict definition. Review implies that you're giving people a relatively balanced or at least thorough opinion on the overall game. It has more than a literal meaning.

You know like when people say that Stash Tabs aren't "P2W" because you "don't win in POE its not a PvP game" which I think most people strictly agree with, but still use the common term ANYWAY because we all know (common vernacular) what the term really implies these days and its not strictly for PvP games that allow you to buy power any more. That ship sailed in 2010-2013.

Anyway its an interesting discussion I expect we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Imo you're dead wrong. I don't really know what it is, but i cant get more than 60 hours out of games when the endgame loop is like d3 d4 last epoch. Last epoch is somewhere between d4 and poe. The endgame loop in poe is far superior and you cant convince me otherwise.

I'm around 160 corruption in a couple monoliths, and I'm finding it hard to find a purpose to really doing anything else in the game. It just feels pointless to me. When i logged in to the game today. i just stood there where i spawned in, looked at a couple monoliths and logged off. Its like GRs where you just make the numbers bigger and theres no real challenge you're pushing towards besides making your numbers bigger.

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Lonnie455Rich wrote:

Its like GRs where you just make the numbers bigger and theres no real challenge you're pushing towards besides making your numbers bigger.

Look, I agree with you....nothing tops PoE imo.

But this statement you made....how is the endgame loop in PoE any different than that? 99.999% of "endgame" in PoE is pushing towards making your numbers bigger. You can "complete" (beat every single boss, complete atlas, get at least 3 watchstones) the game on low-mid tier gear that you can craft starting in Act 10, everything else is just like what you seem to have a problem with in LE and D4: chasing bigger numbers.

Well. Poe has a lot of extra-curricular issues LE hasn't the burden of yet.

But graphics wise so many things are much nicer in LE, some things are better in POE.

THink LE always has been 'way ahead of poe' for the early days.. but then again, depends on adoptation and development in the next 5 years.

Think LE will remain simpler than POE both with pros and cons.

Will LE surpass POE purely as a gold standard or users etc, possibly.. don't know

but no doubt they managed to establish themselves as an arpg and unlike poe's or GGG's rather, powercreep, and outright animosity to their own users, LE won't have these side effects of their success to deal with for probably well over half a decade.

Will be nice to come to POE 2 for sure after playing LE now but at least one doesn't feel one is treated the way we are now here in GGG's playground.

* No death penalty (LE goes 'death = no progress', not 'death = setback')
* Much better crafting system that is not a pure lottery
* Much less RSI (no spamming of chaos orbs, etc...)
* Proper SSF (CoF) I can actually take seriously
* No "friction based design" gaslighting
* Proper trading (for those inclined to do that, I don't, I'm super happy that I can now play a single player ARPG again without any "online" shenanigans)
* Bypass for much of the campaign for alts
* No total reliance on external tools to be able to fully enjoy (ENJOY!) the end game
* In game loot filters

And I didn't mention the "arbitrary mod decisions can lead to exclusion from trade" that is now the latest "act of love" from GGG against their playerbase.

Thats what I gathered so far from playing 100+ hours in early access and about 40 hours in 1.0.

Sad to say this but LE is 2024 game design, PoE is stuck in very, very old ways and relies far too much on the mythical "Diablo II" idea.

I guess I'm out for good, lets see if GGG is learning a lesson or two for PoE2 from LE, but personally I wouldn't bet on it.

There are a ton of goals you can set for yourself in poe.

For instance:
7/7 normal bosses in hc, hcssf, gauntlet
7/7 uber bosses in hc, hcssf, gauntlet
finding a mirror (still have never seen one drop)
collecting divines to craft insane gear
the list goes on.

The crafting in LE is pretty good. i hate a really nice exalted item dropping and it bricking after 5 clicks. then you have to farm another exalted. I like crafting in poe a lot better where every base doesn't brick after x amount of clicks. Its really frustrating.

There is no pinnacle content (at this point) in last epoch. That very well may change in the future. But if its anything like the reflex competition lilith in d4 was on launch ill pass.

Also in poe you feel like you are gaining progress always while youre grinding. Not only are you pushing your dps/defense numbers you're filling your stash with currency that feels meaningful.

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billclinton48 wrote:

Short answer: well, basicly everything.

If what you've based this on is the info below...

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billclinton48 wrote:

First and foremost. There is NO death penalty.

People are motivated by different things. The more difficult a goal is (whether it's artificial or not) the greater the sense of accomplishment. Once you're level 100, the game becomes a whole lot more boring. There's also hardcore for a reason.

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billclinton48 wrote:

EVERYTHING is pre-identified.

Chaos recipe is double with unidentified rares. During Ethiopia leagues, this is how many make currency early-on. Identifying items is exciting, and unidentified items have their own market.

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billclinton48 wrote:

Town Portal is a BUTTON.

This is already a thing. We even have a weapon swap where you can put things like Portal gem in there so it doesn't take space on your main layout.

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billclinton48 wrote:

Gold is picked up automatically by walking over it, and all crafting materials in the area are picked up by 1 click.

PoE intentionally doesn't have gold, however when they experimented with it, they also had auto pickup. PoE's currency is unique and vastly better than the concept of gold other games default to. Gold as a baseline currency is lazy.

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billclinton48 wrote:

There is a built in and fully customizable loot filter.

Again, PoE has this and it's incredibly detailed and intuitive. It is MUCH more detailed than LE's.

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billclinton48 wrote:

Crafting is very straightforward. You provide the materials and you get the result. No need to be a rocket scientist like in POE in the first place, and no guarantees on crafting ANYTHING where everything is randomized so there is no telling what you get.

Saying there's no guarantees on crafting anything is not true. There're hundreds if not thousands more crafting options available in PoE, and so there has to be layers to the complexity when it comes to those crafting options/tiers, etc. Essences, resonators, crafting bench, blocking affixes, influences... you're bound by your (apparently limited) knowledge. PoE's complexity is for many, what keeps us playing.

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billclinton48 wrote:

DOORS!
Doors can be destroyed or open automatically if you approach them. No need to click them, like in PoE and be instagibbed a fraction of a second later by the 10.000 mobs that await beyond.

In incursions where time is of the essence, doors open automatically. In maps where there can be 100+ monsters behind a door, you choose when to open it. It would be good if we had the option to bind a key like space, etc, to open doors when close by.

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billclinton48 wrote:

Ground effects are actually visible, so you can actually move out of the way before you perish from some invisible stuff in POE.
Nothing like blight ravaged maps or breaches that are infested with a gazillion mobs, where you can’t see shit and that actually make my PC’s FPS drop to way below 1 and eventually just STOP and disconnect.

Ground effects are visible. is there a specific effect you have difficulty seeing? Breaches spawn less monsters than many other mechanics, though have a very clearly defined radius of spawning. Is the issue here that your settings are too high for what your computer can handle when playing PoE? Or are you speaking about artifacts and graphical bugs?

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billclinton48 wrote:

Feedback and bug reports on forums are actually read and responded to by the development team. something i have NEVER seen on the poe forums.

GGG used to do this. I think the volume of feedback required would just require too much FTE. Forum replies to not generate revenue, and so there's no income to justify the expense. GGG would need 10+ staff dedicated to the forum to make a dent. That's a minimum of half a mil on 0% revenue. They'd need to increase their revenue by 10 million per year to make 5% margin on that investment. You see where this is going: nowhere. If you just spend money without expanding your revenue stream, your EBIT goes down. This is not sustainable business practice.

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billclinton48 wrote:

Boss Fights.
So far looking quite good.
POE has some of the most poorly designed boss fights with en even poorer loot table. Sirus, Maven, need I say more? Eater of worlds takes forever to grind to and he drops a 1c glove as reward. Well done GGG.

This is just nonsense.

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billclinton48 wrote:

Sure there are issues in LE, it is after all still at 0.9.2 and endgame content is still a bit meagre, but I’m reasonably confident that tomorrow we will see a game that is gonna give POE a run for its money, perhaps not this week, but surely the months and years to come in a way that D3&4 never could.

Ok