Dear GGG (re re re re re requesting automated online only trade)

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Don't expect to be taken seriously if this is how you frame your feedback. This approach persuades no one.

to be honest YOU are not the target audience. you can respond and react to it however you wish. GGG can react or choose not to depending on their whims. THEY are the target audience, and seeing how my explicitives get bleeped, they are at the very least being read by GGG staff.

i am convinced that amongst GGG support/moderation team, many could be passionate players too.

in any case, i've seen your POV and i disagree with it. i've already given my justifications for mine.

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Reinhart wrote:

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exsea wrote:

- botting happens anyway AND players LOVE BOTS now. bots actually sell currency that they need.

Are you trying to justify botting?

1) A smart person does not directly trade his mirror for divines but uses intermediary currency. That is also the reason why people don't trade a mirror for 150k chaos.

2) Automated trading opens all floodgates to automatic sniping. You will be one of the first to scream to GGG when your items, you priced incorrectly, got sniped. The rare items that anyone wants will become insanely expensive because the rich boys will snipe them all up and reprice at much higher price. All the other items become worthless trash, so you will get in a situation where you get hardly cash coming in where you will need much more to buy what you want.

[Removed by Support]

in fact it is INTENTIONALLY made difficult. could ggg create a "currency counter" at the bottom of the trade window? yes, but they didnt. could GGG allow direct trade from stash? POE China proves its possible.

2) you have brought up 2 points:

1 - if you priced an item wrongly and it gets sniped.
- i ll ask you, which is worse? a person losing valuables due to the actions of others (scamming) vs a person losing valuables due to the actions of themselves?

i ll answer it because its a no brainer. of course its worse when its the result of an external party. digging your own nose can give you comfort, but if some random bloke sticks their fat finger up your nose would you be happy? if you underpriced an item and it got sniped, too bad, boohoo, seriously no ones gonna cry for you. in fact we'll laugh at you for making that mistake.

but if you get scammed, speaking for myself and many of my friends, we would actually feel sorry for you.

2 - rare items getting jacked up in price

- for starters yeah it will suck if your build enabling unique/crucial item got sniped. but thats the nature of supply and demand. thats the nature of trade. but i can tell you this. it is a DOUBLE EDGED SWORD. as much as profiteers can make profit out of this, they do stand to lose IF people simply realize they cant afford the item.

in fact it can be a GOOD thing when profiteers try to profit off of it.

if you drop an item that they're hoarding up. you could QUICKLY sell the item at a decent price as the hoarders will snipe it, AND you could quickly sell the item at a decent price if you're selling it cheaper than what the hoarder is selling it for. supply and demand.

simple as that.

as for your original question

YES. i am justifying botting. without shame. i am NOT a botter, but the botters are usually providing service to the players. they CONSTANTLY are available to trade unlike the huge number of players that dont respond for whatever reason.

i would also clarify that i am all for TRADEBOTS specifically. not farming bots.

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exsea wrote:

GGG is HAPPY to allow people to get scammed.

why can i throw such an allegation?

if GGG does not want players to be scammed, they could have done soemthing about it.

but they chose not to.
.

Oh absolutely GGG does not care at all about normies struggling to get their characters up to speed and compete with the blasters on the market.

I would literally chose to forgo the next league mechanic in exchange for an actual dedicated auction house. I list something, I set the price, someone can buy it, and my currency is waiting for me when I come back to hideout. Put out a buy offer, place your currency in the trade tab, come back to hideout your item is sitting in there waiting for you.

This would probably not work for specific minutely detailed gear. That would still probably get traded player to player. But if I just wanna buy chisels/essence/sextants/whatever other supplies I'm buying there's no reason I have to sit there refreshing the trade website throwing out request after request until someone bothers to get back to me to throw out 10c worth of crap and then I have to repeat several times until I'm good to go for another session. Wastes both the buyers and sellers time because GGG is making the game worse to try and combat botting and exploiting and rmt. But they aren't even defeating the bots. The bots are actually just better than the current system cuz you can actually just quickly purchase the supplies you want and get back to mapping.

Buying maps and I have to sit there and look through 60 different cemetery maps to make sure the dude isn't trying to pull a fast one and giving me rippy corrupted maps on purpose.

You only scam yourself if you get scammed in a idiot-proof face to face trade.

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exsea wrote:

So there's a guy who got scammed recently. Let's analyze how we got to this situation.

If youre referring to the person who accepted the 600 divine trade for a mirror then I really dont sympathize. They had plenty of options and that player has shown to not care about any different way of approaching the situation they did. KNOWING, self admitted, they had other options but chose not to a single one of them.

Unless you are generically saying someone got scammed. Happens to everyone regardless of the system in place.

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exsea wrote:

1. limited stacks
- limited stacks comes from how GGG originally created the game as f2p but wanted to monetize by selling stash tabs. before currency tab was introduced even buying the regular stash tabs would eventually fill up.
- there was also LESS variety of items so GGG had to find artificial ways to fill players inventory. making currency stack in limited quantities achieved just that.

Agreed. Stack size increase needed.

Similarly wack values on item stacks should probably be looked at, for example essences being 9??.

Unfortunately, I think a big reason stack sizes dont just go to very high values is because they need to sell tabs like currency/fragments/cards etc...

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exsea wrote:

2. No automated trade
- GGG's stance on trade is they want to encourage players to engage with the game more than relying on trade. thus they intentionally made it difficult to trade.
- POE 5 years ago was a very different environment. i would even argue back then you could - with difficulty, clear most of the game with 100-200k dps. what an average player with a janky ass build can do was still a huge number of things by themselves. thus it made sense to make trading difficult. "Ugh, the sellers not responding/ the items already sold/ someone offered a higher price" leads to fuckit i ll just farm it myself. it made sense and was plausible for the average player to farm most of what they wanted themselves.
- Making trade difficult also helped prevent botters from profiting too much.
- Prevent market manipulation or at least slow it down.

For trade probably a mindset of something from the earlier stages of POE. I didnt play so I cant really speak for it.

Botters and manipulation was most likely due to just how unpopular/popular the game is. I dont really care about botters or "price fixers" but I am in the minority as it requires some game knowledge to work around those roadblocks. Newer players run into these, and think they cant do anything because they cant make enough currency/things to expensive.

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exsea wrote:

1. limited stacks.
- for starters you get into situations that force players to initiate trade multiple times. the more trades required, the higher the chance for someone to get scammed.
- its easier to scam people who dont pay attention if a stack or two are not full stacks
- it makes players (like my lazy ass self) have problems adding up stacks to see if they have enough.

Repeat of stack size problem.

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exsea wrote:

2. No automated trade.
- players are inconvenienced. if they are engaged in long form content such as lab/sanctum, they are forced to complete it first. it could add additional stress as they know someones waiting on them. players sometimes opt to ignore trade because theyre busy.

Or heist or delve.

But I mean, if you are so hyper focused on getting trades done, like foaming at the mouth HAS TO BE DONE. Then maybe change up your play for those situations so that you can engage more with it.

If I am in heist I just turn on DND, I might miss trades yea, but I dont rely on them as I want to play the game not "play trade" if you know what I mean. I get that people like the thrill of selling and buying but in the current game they should focus on setting up windows for trade, maybe if they will be crafting for a bit in their hideout turn off DND.

Automating it in an AH like runescape does yea maybe they could do something like that. I wouldnt be against it.

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exsea wrote:

too much

I think the rest of this post is very disordered and goes off in rant style thing which I will agree with Artcrusade. Not many people are going to be, receptive of feedback like this.

Just this league alone you have made a post about quitting, reworking trade, reworking the atlas, top 5 things I dislike, disordered generic trade/melee/investment complaint post, separation of skilled/unskilled players, rant about mechanics with sirus/King of the mist....

For comparison I think I made 1 this league starting off with how satisfied I am with minion play and then asking for corpses to go core, and another one back in 2022 about how confusing rares were (they actually made changes for this exact issue https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3286439)

You make a LOT of threads in just one league and we are only a third of the way through it. ALL of them something negative to say about the game which I would agree with this statement

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Don't expect to be taken seriously if this is how you frame your feedback. This approach persuades no one.

You are free to post, don't need me to tell you, but it seems like the game would need an entire rework of nearly every system for you to beable to enjoy anything at this point.