Dear GGG (re re re re re requesting automated online only trade)

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

? It IS the victims fault lmao

YOU PHYSICALLY LITERALLY have to LOOK IT the other trade screen to see if it's the item you want.

LITERALLY

LMAO

History offers many lessons unfortunately for those responsible for scamming people it is and always will be their fault, not the victim.

there is the saying don't be a sucker sure but that does not make it ok for bad things to be done to someone.

In one point SilentSymphony has a point, and that is saying that the trade system isn't idiot-proof. My question would be: does it have to be?

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ArtCrusade wrote:

In one point SilentSymphony has a point, and that is saying that the trade system isn't idiot-proof. My question would be: does it have to be?

There is no such thing as idiot proof. Idiots are shockingly resourceful and creative when it comes to self-destruction.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

History offers many lessons unfortunately for those responsible for scamming people it is and always will be their fault, not the victim.

there is the saying don't be a sucker sure but that does not make it ok for bad things to be done to someone.

You're acting like it's impossible for it to be BOTH people's fault, which is clearly the case here. Yes: it's the fault of the "scammers" because what they're doing is disgusting and contemptable, but it's insanely dangerous to absolve the victims of any and all responsibility for their own choices. At some point people HAVE to be accountable for their own decisions, and I'm pretty sure that point is when the game forces you to inspect the stuff you are buying before it allows you to buy it.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

In one point SilentSymphony has a point, and that is saying that the trade system isn't idiot-proof. My question would be: does it have to be?

There is no such thing as idiot proof. Idiots are shockingly resourceful and creative when it comes to self-destruction.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

History offers many lessons unfortunately for those responsible for scamming people it is and always will be their fault, not the victim.

there is the saying don't be a sucker sure but that does not make it ok for bad things to be done to someone.

You're acting like it's impossible for it to be BOTH people's fault, which is clearly the case here. Yes: it's the fault of the "scammers" because what they're doing is disgusting and contemptable, but it's insanely dangerous to absolve the victims of any and all responsibility for their own choices. At some point people HAVE to be accountable for their own decisions, and I'm pretty sure that point is when the game forces you to inspect the stuff you are buying before it allows you to buy it.

Sure its not black and white of course, I don't think they need to do anything major to trade personally but some sort of direct-trade where you get what is listed such as online-only-automated-trade to curb price-fixing would definitely be nice.

Trade in general has just become more frustrating with time and its in general across the board though i do not feel scamming has been on the rise but that is only from my personal experience trading.

Darwanism... If you fall for scams, learn from it and don't get scammed again.
If you keep getting scammed thats on you.

Too often the world today coddles people with warning labels and stuff like that and it actually decreases the basic intelligence of everyone overall.

Please no hand holding stuff.

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exsea wrote:

it really is disheartening to see people having boomer mentality.

the game is hard and you have to suffer for any mistakes you make. if people try to scam you and you fall for it, thats your fault.

maybe i should not say boomer, but instead GGG defenders. GGG can do NOTHING wrong. everything they do is for the best.

the guy who got scammed and got partial payment for his mirror?

boohoo, thats a fucking tuition fee for you, you should have not trusted random people suckah!

whats up with all this masochistic attitude?

A lot of your claims in the opening post ignore the greater context of the game and its systems which to address would be a fruitless effort. At least half of it is a rant about how you feel wronged by GGG for 'choosing not to fix trade' and the other part is poorly structured. If there's anything in particular you'd like me to address feel free to point to it and I will gladly do so.

For every post from someone who didn't use common sense and got scammed there's tens of thousands of trades that complete normally. Pointing that out isn't "defending GGG", it's being reasonable. You are behaving the opposite way by saying things like "GGG is HAPPY to allow people to get scammed." as if they find the thought of people getting scammed enjoyable.

Don't expect to be taken seriously if this is how you frame your feedback. This approach persuades no one.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Sure its not black and white of course, I don't think they need to do anything major to trade personally but some sort of direct-trade where you get what is listed such as online-only-automated-trade to curb price-fixing would definitely be nice.

Trade in general has just become more frustrating with time and its in general across the board though i do not feel scamming has been on the rise but that is only from my personal experience trading.

I'm down for changing trade if it doesn't end up in a Ubisoft'esque, handholy state. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect people to use common sense when engaging in trade. If I see a good proposed solution to trade I'll happily jump up and join the bandwagon, but I don't think anything suggested in this thread is good for the game

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exsea wrote:

- botting happens anyway AND players LOVE BOTS now. bots actually sell currency that they need.

Are you trying to justify botting?

1) A smart person does not directly trade his mirror for divines but uses intermediary currency. That is also the reason why people don't trade a mirror for 150k chaos.

2) Automated trading opens all floodgates to automatic sniping. You will be one of the first to scream to GGG when your items, you priced incorrectly, got sniped. The rare items that anyone wants will become insanely expensive because the rich boys will snipe them all up and reprice at much higher price. All the other items become worthless trash, so you will get in a situation where you get hardly cash coming in where you will need much more to buy what you want.

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Reinhart wrote:

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exsea wrote:

- botting happens anyway AND players LOVE BOTS now. bots actually sell currency that they need.

Are you trying to justify botting?

1) A smart person does not directly trade his mirror for divines but uses intermediary currency. That is also the reason why people don't trade a mirror for 150k chaos.

2) Automated trading opens all floodgates to automatic sniping. You will be one of the first to scream to GGG when your items, you priced incorrectly, got sniped. The rare items that anyone wants will become insanely expensive because the rich boys will snipe them all up and reprice at much higher price. All the other items become worthless trash, so you will get in a situation where you get hardly cash coming in where you will need much more to buy what you want.

The potential downsides are quite harsh indeed but it's not really so different from how things are already are now.

They could do a number of things to curb bad behavior with that too though i wonder if it would work, timeouts on items purchased from it so that they can't be resold immediately or other such things to curb bad behavior like price fixing.

a timeout wouldn't stop it from happening though it would just make them wait a bit longer but that might be enough to shut down a number of these people just not all of them.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

That's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at the situation, but okay. If you think that someone saying that the people who prey on noobs only do so because they can't clear content is being an apologist, you aren't living in reality. I also argued against OPs grounds specifically on the basis of how it would enable these so called scammers far more than the current trade system.

I suggest you reread my post until you actually understand it.

My apologies, I did indeed jump the gun. But in my defense, it was only after you jumped the shark.

That was an incredibly dense block of text, and at the end of rereading it several times, I still disagree with your premise.

I sympathize with your frustration, but the reasons why automated trade would be a net negative for the game have been restated so many times that's it's redundant at this point (and obviously pointless because these posts keep being made) to say it all again.

In the end I think GGG are making the right decision - despite the down sides.