Gladiator ascendency is very lacking
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^I care a LOT about how far Gladiator has fallen! And it wasn't too much work becuase its mostly just common knowledge for any duelist fan at this point. It has literally been the same for YEARS now. This isn't a recent development.
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" Thank you for confirming what I said. --------------------------------------------------------
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" If you remove this Gladiator ascendancy after a rework, you won't have that for Slayer and Champion, I really hope you realize that. I almost smiled here. --------------------------------------------------------
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" " " I don't think you know how 'hype' works and how much it affects certain game mechanics, builds, ascendancies, skills. --------------------------------------------------------
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" I have had quite a few Gladiators for 10 years, bro. Even though it's kinda irrelevant, I actually have two currently but I guess you preferred to blindly judge rather than have an actual argument. Your ignorant effort speaks for itself and is disturbing. -------------------------------------------------------- We're talking about how good/bad Gladiator is, right? I don't really see many comments here providing worthy arguments as to why the Gladiator ascendancy is good/bad. The fact that barely anyone plays Gladiator has little to do with how good the ascendancy is. Nobody cares if you like to play Gladiators or Slayers, or Tricksters or anything really. As long as what the game offers is properly applied to your idea. For example - do you really think people will play that much Deadeye Tornado shot if it wasn't for Tornado shot itself? I must admit, you made me smile here. Last edited by fostaa#0384 on Apr 8, 2025, 5:56:12 AM
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" Guess what?! YOU can do that, instead of asking TWICE to talk about that in a thread titled "Gladiator ascendancy is lacking". You have the power to post on the forums too, you're doing it right now! "The fact that no one plays gladiators has little to do with how good the ascendancy is". Okay...I'm out. Beating a dead horse. Your head is buried. I'll move on. Why do people play TS or use Deadeye, or play elementalist, or run SRS? Yes, popularity plays a role.....but the much larger reason why is because these builds are POWERFUL. They are popular in practice BECAUSE they are powerful, not the other way around. There are plenty of meme builds that see incredible popularity...but are NEVER played because they are ultimately WEAK. Gladiator isn't popular because it does not have the power. "Hype" has EVERYTHING to do with "Power": they are completely intertwined. You can't hype something that doesn't perform. Oh....and lmao "Instruments of Virtue" = 4% usage, compared to Gladiator's "Violent Retaliation" @ 0.0% usage. So the BEST node in Gladiator's arsenal sees infinitely less usage than a node you seem to have a major problem with. But hey...Gladiator is fiiiiiiiiiiiine. Even instruments of Zeal has more usage (not much though, it really does suck). Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Jan 19, 2024, 9:46:05 AM
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" This statement is only half-true. I've played and created off-meta builds strong enough and cheap enough with over 50-80-100m dps and desirable EHP that can erase bosses or others that have super high map clear efficiency. But they are not famous of course - I made them. As a matter of fact I do not remember ever playing a meta build. Also, do not forget the fact that this whole rant we observe about 'buffing this' or 'nerfing that' is only and ONLY applicable in Softcore because people's attention is easily drawn to the highest of the highest performances and are mainly interested in this type of gameplay. Play some SSF and you will have no need to rant about anything like this. Play Ruthless. Do you know what kills the interest in the game the most? The long lasting meta features. Do you know why PoE has the longest retention of players of its existence in this league; and still continues at this point? Because they greatly shifted the meta features with the new skill gem variations. And it will continue for a minimum of two more leagues I can assure you that. Do you know why Tornado shot is still the most played Skill? No, this is a real question that I need to know the answer to. I really don't know. And to be honest I am rather interested in an answer to the question "When will Tornado shot be nerfed?"... Anyway. Wish everyone is happy at the end. Last edited by fostaa#0384 on Apr 8, 2025, 5:53:30 AM
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Gladiator is WEAK
i do not know what else you want to read here: GLADIATOR IS WEAK he has one 'extra' thing - bleed. 4 notables that buff the weakest archetype in the game. problem with these 4 notables? the initial one is so bland that I cannot even find words to describe it: bleed + maim? is that it? it is JUNK that provides ZERO actual value. so 8point ascendancy has 2 points wasted on useless stuff the explode node is fun, but.. there are 1c gloves that provide the exact same functionality. gloves that you can double corrupt and get +frenzy/vulnerability or something challenger charges - ok, this is good, versatile node frenzy/endurance charge node. if a node does not work vs bosses it is trash. this node is trash. counterattacks - again, same story. you wont be killing endgame bosses with this node. it helps vs things you already kill easily. so it hardly helps at all and to make this node work on its own - aka counterattack build that ive done and enjoyed - you need DAMAGE that Glad wont give you AND capped block. something that Glad is surprisingly bad at. the lucky damage + phys reduction reduction. - meh, and it is worth 4 points. the lucky damage is fun, albeit it hardly translates to more than 25% due to phys damage range being rather narrow (taking it for smite build makes no sense as then you ignore first half of the node). the reduction on PDR is very, very weak because it cannot go negative (this is in fact the biggest problem for phys damage in general). armour on monsters you can safely ignore if you are dealing 400k phys per hit, and % phys reduction can be negated with overwhelm/crush almost for free as most passive trees are taking sources of both anyway. this node might work for very, very specific damage ranges. but it is a damn 4 pointer! so it better work +max attack block node is just sad also - counterattacks with added lightning.. lol no: 1) if you have sockets to spare, i envy you. most melee builds esp phys builds have not a single spare socket 2) 500 lightning damage on a phys build wont shock anyone, it is not enough damage to reach any ailment threshold 3) on the other hand it is enough to kill you in ele reflect map on an otherwise 100% phys build. -10% xp move you wanna shock enemies who hit you - there are mods on shields that do just that to sum it up: Gladiator is the weakest ascendancy in the game thanks to relying and buffing: - attack physical damage - bleed probably two weakest scaling avenues in the entire game. going physical is auto-loss currently. no penetration, no 'phys as extra', reliance on bleeds that suck and impales that were gutted Champion and Slayer provide GENERIC damage, Gladiator supports what already is on life support. since curse rework, exposure and scorch physical attack damage has no mathematical means of competing. reliance on weapons that are hardest items to craft in the game and still are worse than STR stacking. no, thanks, but no thanks. Gladiator is terrible and useless precisely because physical attack damage is a choice no competitive player will ever make. Hrimsorrow in, Brutality out - you just made any phys attack build better Last edited by sidtherat#1310 on Jan 19, 2024, 1:38:50 PM
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" I literally took your standard league gladiator (since your current league one has no items equipped, I guess even you realized it was bad and decided to sell your items to make something real), turned it into a champion, and the build got better. I don't know what else you want me to say, my dude. You're the only one here defending gladiator, and YOUR GLADIATOR IS BETTER AS A CHAMPION. End of discussion? |
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" I agree with: -Lack of charge generation on hit; -Lack of good use of counter-attacks except application of secondary effects but the passive increases their damage, and that Double damage won't work for ignites or other features that work with Base damage (for example to put it on an auto-killer build or something) so they just suck in the way you described; -Bleed needs more love in general. Especially that the "Flee" mechanic won't work with bosses. I won't even go into detail about how infamous it is. ...but the bleed problem is not strictly related to the Gladiator. I also generally agree that physical builds (non-DoT) are least desirable exactly because of the damage-type conversion. But again, this is not just a Gladiator issue. And this is also a reason why Melee is generally less desirable - respectively most of the people demand 'more love for melee' before every new league announcement. What I do not agree with: -Your calculations about physical Overwhelm are poor. Also, I am not sure that it is even possible to get the 100% overwhelm even if you get all the existing sources in the game. The ignore from the ascendancy literally gives you 100% overwhelming and you do not need any other source if you have this. And of course it won't go below 0 - it works with the same logic as Penetration and Ignoring resistances; -"Lucky" hits works the same way regardless of the amplitude of the min-max damage (whether it's 1 to 999 or 400 to 600, the average outcome is literally the same) -I can't understand why you underestimate the block mechanic - not only that - but even try to mention it in a bad way. Just no, bro. If you don't like it or prefer something against spells (or you like other forms of mitigation more), just take max Attack block and Versatile combatant. Solves a lot of issues. Gladiator is the best class for Attack block exactly because of the large amount of additional maximum block. -----------------------------------------------------------
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" Wut? ------------------------ \\// peace Last edited by fostaa#0384 on Jan 19, 2024, 3:52:59 PM
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When would you even 'need' 100% overwhelm. Unless you click +50k armour exarch altar there should never be a scenario where more than Bastion Breaker / Vanquisher is needed
The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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So now its only the best for "attack block". Which ALSO isn't even true. Its funny, but NECROMANCER is the best class for attack blocks. Mostly because you can ALSO max Spell block alongside it, but also because it takes far less investment to reach max attack block allowing for greater build flexibility and shield flexibility. The extra 10% max attack block in regular gameplay and bossing is totally and utterly meaningless. You would be better off grabbing a 1% life regeneration node on a build that doesn't scale life regeneration.
"Don't understand why you underestimate the block mechanic": because you don't really fundamentally understand the block mechanic in general....and how it interacts with the game Actually...there is a grain of truth in your last post: this league is the FIRST league where Gladiator is indeed the "best" attack block choice, because with charms you can now reach 99/100% attack block. This is only possible with gladiator. Only problem is....even THAT ridiculousness is meaningless because you end up paper thin against everything else and deal no damage. And furthermore, giving up the 100% block chance and taking the old gladiator / new passive tree keystone "Versatile Combatant" is WAY better for your character's survivability and reliability. Take your gladiator-only advantage, remove it, and you are BETTER off. Ex: just took one of my gladiators PoB. Gave him 100% attack block, 0% spell block. His ehp was about 300k. Tweaked it to 50/50 (which ANY class can get) and his ehp becomes 2.6 million. THAT is how little attack block ALONE matters. I don't even need PoB for that....85% attack block = dead with 100% of spells and 15% attacks (total 115). 50% attack block / 50% spell block = dead with 50% spells and 50% attacks (total 100). 15% "better" to NOT be a gladiator. Now head to Necro, who pretty easily gets 75/75 which translates to "100% increased" reliability than even 50/50. Analysis above purposely ignores all other defenses because...gladiator doesn't OFFER any other defenses. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Jan 19, 2024, 4:25:24 PM
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" no. it does not work that way. it is +25% of a RANGE. but the actual value depends on said range. the narrower the range, the %more damage on average is lower for a range of 990-1000 (avg: 995) lucky brings you up to avg: 997.5. it is 25% of the range, but less than 1% more damage. on the other hand, 1-1000 range (avg 500) results in avg 750 (25% more avg damage) you might toy with the range using Ryslatha + volatility support but the end result doesnt change the fact it is rather meh for a 4-pointer (and requires a special belt and special support, both with opportunity costs). there is a reason why people are not doing that - 25% more damage that requires weird hoops and 4 points is just not that great compared to alternatives " it is Gladiator issue or rather it is what makes Gladiator even weaker: Gladiator's ascendancy boosts PHYSICAL attack damage while Slayer and Champion provide GENERIC damage in pretty much the same quantity. ascendancy that boosts what is already the weakest stuff cannot be strong as it does not provide anything meaningful. and block.. Gladiator is junk for block. the best class for block is Necromancer - easy 75/75 with pretty much no investment. Gladiator for that requires like 25 passives. same story with that 100% attack block. you CAN do that but for what cost? these chars are barely playable because it costs so much |
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