I am going to be very honest; I despise this game's lack of respect for self-determination.

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Echothesis wrote:

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No, no one should be entitled to demand to have the same results as people who are better at something. Be it computer games, sports or work.

Didn't read source post of this, but this here is exactly what I like least in poe community. Gutgud guys persuaded themselves that excesses they do are "best", "work", and trying even harder to persuade themselves that those who criticize poe design do it just because they are "weak", "cannot work".

Ffs, it is not hard to slap aegis aurora and tank everything except maven memory game. Not hard to read what is our current meta this patch and jump on that train. Thing is, some people play not to crutch numbers and 40/40, and not to spam one map 500 times because apothecary is there, but would like some roleplaying immersion too, and to play whatever character they like more, and being able to visit all content in the game with it.

This is where poe design fails, build disparity is so large, that "self-determined" players as OP called them are bound to have miserable experience unless they toe the line and build around things that "work".

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Nomancs wrote:

PoE design didint fail.Yes, it is possible for them to do all content, maybe except some ubers. But instead of working on their build to do it, they slam a post about how they deserve it.

Some players have huge misconception that they should be able to equip random gear with random skillgems and kill every boss - that would be a bad game design.

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Echothesis wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

PoE design didint fail.Yes, it is possible for them to do all content, maybe except some ubers. But instead of working on their build to do it, they slam a post about how they deserve it.

Some players have huge misconception that they should be able to equip random gear with random skillgems and kill every boss - that would be a bad game design.

No one argued that you have to put effort to succeed, and random gear won't cut it. However, gear requirements to reach same level of dps on different main skills can differ drastically, that's why we have "league starters" and "build we want to play" terms in the first place. And as we've (I hope) figured out at the beginning of this thread, poe endgame content was always balanced around fewer number of builds with extreme performance treshold.

How would a new player know that going for dual-wield instead of shield is heresy, and self-casting one spell is the worst choice you can make?

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Echothesis wrote:

No one argued that you have to put effort to succeed, and random gear won't cut it. However, gear requirements to reach same level of dps on different main skills can differ drastically, that's why we have "league starters" and "build we want to play" terms in the first place. And as we've (I hope) figured out at the beginning of this thread, poe endgame content was always balanced around fewer number of builds with extreme performance treshold.

How would a new player know that going for dual-wield instead of shield is heresy, and self-casting one spell is the worst choice you can make?

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exsea wrote:

i ll go off on a slightly different tangent.

i think OP is a weak player. but i can understand the frustration.

OP stated he's been playing since 2016. my guess is that he is similar to me, i RESENT following builds. and back in 2016 things were much different from now.

a 100k dps build COULD work back then. but as the years passed, the devs constantly threw harder challenges towards players to the point that there is a huge build disparity.

if you came in the game 5 years ago, you could make ANY janky ass build somewhat work. a lot of boss mechanics could be circumvented with good awareness/positioning.

now? its a huge gear/build check. you cant afford to be inefficient. you cant afford to do a janky melee witch. you actually can but only if you invest tons of divines into gearing but with a fraction of that investment you could have done so much more with a better build.

i myself tweaked my own build over the years. i m using echoforge viperstrike. totally weak ass build with 1-3 million dps. but i've cleared most of the game except for the feared and uber pinnacles. the gear i use on standard... man those would have cost a bomb and some are unobtainable now.

i have had the luxury of GROWING with the game over the years.

but i would say I AM LUCKY. many of the newer gears/gems/mechanics actually were in my favour. perhaps OP did not have the same luck as i have and the changes could have affected his build in a negative way?

the big issue with poe to me is that the gap between a "new player going blind" vs someone following a build is doing 50-100k dps vs millions to billions.

the most common response that i see that "good players" would give is to git gud/learn the game/pick and follow 1 of the bajillions of working build guides. to an aspect i agree that players need to understand the game better, but i am always disgusted by any game that needs players to follow a build guide.

personally, my enjoyment from playing arpgs is making my own build. i am playing the game. if i follow a build, i feel like the game is playing me.

many may have forgotten how POE actually marketed itself, where it highlighted itself as being a classless game where a witch could use a sword and a beefy maruader could cast spells. i liked the idea of doing janky ass builds, but as the game grew, the need for efficiency pruned away the jankiness bit by bit to where we are here today.

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DeathorGlory wrote:

I don't understand why people think this is normal, or people think this shouldn't be addressed as an issue.

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DeathorGlory wrote:

...but you never hear anyone complain that Diablo's mechanics are so utterly broken that it forces you to play in one way, or not at all.

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__blubb wrote:

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DeathorGlory wrote:

I don't understand why people think this is normal, or people think this shouldn't be addressed as an issue.

Yeah I don't know what it is that makes most people enjoy just copying FoTm builds from the internet.