Please reconsider gender-locked classes for PoE2

Contrary to popular belief, RPG's are not about having numbers for muscle mass and IQ. They're about playing roles. Which means that as soon as your role is predefined by the game, self-inserting is not a thing.

As much as there's mostly only RPG on paper left as soon as the A joins the fray - it's still the wrong genre for that. Bethesda and cronies cater quite succesfully to needs in that regard. But PoE is simply not made for this, and rightly so.

:)

Id much prefer the dev time to be on the content you play not more character models

"

Orbaal wrote:

GGG stated multiple times that you are not playing a witch but THE witch.

Thats a fixed character in the world of Wraeclast with a fixed background, storyline and whatnot.


I highly doubt its about implementing another 3d model or recording voice lines thats holding them back but the writing and storytelling going forward.
Most people, including myself, dont care about the story whatsoever and simply want to kill monsters and become a godlike character, which is perfectly fine.

However, I can see how having to write a storyline with multiple outcomes, voicelines for NPCs and whatever else is needed, all of it depending on the character gender, could become a nightmare GGG doesnt want to deal with - and thats fine too.

In the context of an online multiplayer environment, the notion of being "THE" unique character lose some of its significance when you see multiple identical characters, reinforcing the idea that you are one among many heroes rather than a singular, pivotal figure.

This paradox is indeed a challenge for storytelling within games that have a large player base all interacting within the same world. It's a limitation of the genre that both players and developers often have to accept. However, this doesn't necessarily diminish the importance of having a personal connection to the character you're playing.

It's also worth noting that from a development standpoint, creating multiple storylines and voice lines to accommodate different character identities is a significant undertaking. It requires substantial resources and can complicate the narrative structure. While some players may prioritize gameplay and power progression over story, for others, the narrative and the ability to identify with their character are integral to their enjoyment.

In the end, it's about striking a balance between narrative coherence, player expression, and practical development considerations. Games that manage to offer both a strong sense of individual identity and engaging gameplay tend to stand out and resonate with a wider audience.

"

AxiomOfAnarchy wrote:

"

Ethak wrote:

it's understandable that you would prefer to play characters that reflect your own identity or preferences

I really don't get this. I've never had any issues playing female or male or non-binary characters, or gay or straight or bi or asexual characters, cis or trans characters, even in games that are far more immersive than ARPGs. I don't have any issues playing characters whose identity and/or preferences don't align with my own, because they're not me, and frankly it's boring and potentially unhealthy to only engage with or consume content that aligns strictly with whatever narrow set of properties defines you specifically.

I'm not a hulking superstitious brute, but I play marauders.
I'm not an old religious fanatic with a fear of wearing pants, but I play templars.
I'm not a misanthropic survivalist living off the land, but I play rangers.
I'm not a professional murderer, but I play shadows.
I don't do any sort of competitive fighting, but I play duelists.
I don't even believe in the existence of magic, let alone try to practice it, but I play witches.
I was not born into wealth or status, but I play scions.

It's great that you have the flexibility and openness to play a wide variety of characters in video games; it certainly allows for a broad range of experiences and exploration of different perspectives. However, it's crucial to acknowledge that not everyone may feel the same way. For some players, the ability to choose a character that aligns with their own identity or preferences is an important part of their gaming experience. It can be for aesthetic reasons, personal comfort, or deeper connections to the character they are playing.

While it might seem inconsequential to some, the choice of character can significantly impact others' enjoyment and immersion. The gaming community is diverse, and what might be a minor detail to one person can be a deal-breaker for another. It's all about providing options that cater to a wide array of players, ensuring that everyone can find a way to enjoy the game in their own way.

Respecting different preferences and acknowledging that they all come from valid personal experiences is key to fostering an inclusive gaming environment. Ultimately, the aim is to have a game that everyone can enjoy, regardless of how they engage with the content.

Never understood a point like this.....

Would you say the same thing about EVERY NPC you encounter in a game? Should you be able to change Cassia into a man at will just because "gender-locking is a problem"? In my eyes....that's who the character is. They have a VOICE ACTOR for who they are. It is a stronger identity than many characters in similar games. Creating a duplicate for every single character costs time and $$$$, and exponentially increases the time required for any additional content introduced later.

Additionally, you open a very slippery slope here: what about non-traditional genders? Should all classes now have options for male, female, hermaphrodite, nonbinary, xyz? You are being just as exclusive asking for a male and female variant than what it currently is.

What if I don't want a human at all? All classes should have a cat or lizard variant.

GGG should just release a Wraeclast Dating Simulator and everyone will be happy.

Right?

far as I'm concerned not having options is always worse than having options.

And tbh a game in 202X that ships with gender locked classes is frankly just outdated and several years behind the times. I don't care if I play a thick Male Jugg or a Thick female jugg, or is that um... Juggs? Okay sorry that was bad. But I'd love to play a badass thick Karui amazonian class fantasy. I know most ARPG players don't give a single shit about class fantasy but I'm old fashioned and part of me still cares and finds that idea fun.

Thats all, its not the end of the world but lets call a spade a spade here. Gender locked classes belong in 199x-201X games. It doesn't personally offend me to play any gender, or not play one. But I'd much rather have this modern option, than the dated feel of not having it.

If GGG was still an indi studio I'd find it less backward and outdated. But they're a big boy -- tens of millions in profit per year -- company now.

So there's no reason they can't spend an extra 60-100k on voice lines and maybe some time repurposing male duelist into a male ranger and female ranger into female duelist.

Honestly I see no reason why the game should ship without these options. It makes POE2 look kind of backward and instantly dated before its even shipped.

That alone is worth GGG's attention.

I don't see how you can label gender-locked classes as "dated" when almost half of all arpgs, new or otherwise, have gender-locked classes...possibly more than half but I'm REALLY not about to count them all.

Its a very common thing though. Hell, Last Epoch which is arguably ANOTHER one of the top 5-ish arpgs in existence right now, and one which is brand spanking new not even fully released.....has gender locked classes too. Lost Ark, another new major title has gender locked classes.


Lot's of people try to compare a game like this to a game like BG3.....you really can't. BG3, the entire game revolves around the IDENTITY of the playercharacter. Sex plays an actual role. PoE, the entire game revolves around the ACTION. Hence, "action"rpg, and not RPG. Gender plays no role, so why should they waste MILLIONS when they don't need to? Everyone in this thread who wants extra genders has also admitted that its "not a big deal". I know I'm certainly not about to shell out an extra few million dollars for something that will ultimately have zero impact on my game or its audience.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

I don't see how you can label gender-locked classes as "dated" when almost half of all arpgs, new or otherwise, have gender-locked classes...possibly more than half but I'm REALLY not about to count them all.

Its a very common thing though. Hell, Last Epoch which is arguably ANOTHER one of the top 5-ish arpgs in existence right now, and one which is brand spanking new not even fully released.....has gender locked classes too. Lost Ark, another new major title has gender locked classes.


Lot's of people try to compare a game like this to a game like BG3.....you really can't. BG3, the entire game revolves around the IDENTITY of the playercharacter. Sex plays an actual role. PoE, the entire game revolves around the ACTION. Hence, "action"rpg, and not RPG. Gender plays no role, so why should they waste MILLIONS when they don't need to? Everyone in this thread who wants extra genders has also admitted that its "not a big deal". I know I'm certainly not about to shell out an extra few million dollars for something that will ultimately have zero impact on my game or its audience.

While it's true that some players may not find character gender to be a significant factor in their gaming experience, for a substantial segment of the gaming community, it holds considerable importance. The ability to choose a character that aligns with their gender identity can greatly enhance their immersion and enjoyment of the game. It's not just about aesthetics; it's about representation and feeling connected to the game world.

Regarding the cost, it's important to note that while adding additional genders to a game does require resources, the actual expense can vary widely depending on the scope of the changes needed. It might involve creating new character models, animations, and voice acting, as well as potentially adjusting storylines and dialogue. The cost definitely will not reach millions of dollars, but it's not negligible either.

However, the investment in inclusivity can pay off by expanding the game's appeal to a broader audience. When players feel represented and see that a game caters to a diverse player base, they are more likely to invest time and resources into the game, which can lead to a healthier, more engaged community and, ultimately, greater financial success for the developers.

It's important to look beyond personal preferences and consider the wider implications and potential benefits of such features for the game and its community. After all, what might seem like a small detail to one person can make a world of difference to another.

"

Ethak wrote:

While it's true that some players may not find character gender to be a significant factor in their gaming experience, for a substantial segment of the gaming community, it holds considerable importance. The ability to choose a character that aligns with their gender identity can greatly enhance their immersion and enjoyment of the game. It's not just about aesthetics; it's about representation and feeling connected to the game world.

This is a demonstrably and categorically false statement....and one that is widely used by folks on your side of the argument.

IF it were true that a "substantial" segment of the community cares that much about this....the games I mentioned above wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are. Additionally, there would be far more posts about this on forums of this game, among others.

In fact, it is an incredibly SMALL segment of the community that cares about this while most recognize that....it doesn't matter at all.


Your description of costs shows a complete lack of knowledge of the pricetag of the things you describe...perhaps think and research a bit before you start spouting off wildly incorrect statements (especially when numbers are in play). Voice acting alone can cost 10s of thousands and that is likely the cheapest part of the equation.

We don't have, or at least I can't find, a specific study that dives into the "profits associated with non-genderlocked player characters", but I can almost guarantee that in almost all cases, the costs would outweigh the potential new customers that may be brought in. I would suggest this is even more true of free-to-play games. People are not going to be "more likely to play" PoE 2 if they can play as a female marauder AND a male marauder: they are going to play or leave regardless if they like the gameplay loop itself.

Can you really name a single person that would agree with this statement?
"Man, that new <x> game looks AMAZING.......oh darn but I can't play it because the classes are gender locked". Because that would be the ONLY additional customer that spending millions on additional genders would actually bring in....