Since many people seem to be bothered much about the Void mod on Valdos Puzzle Box maps
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"Infantilizing" is called consideration. Players care only about their own environment and how to maximize their progress in it. Some also care to establish their humanly superiority over others. Devs should care about multitudes of perceptions within their chosen target audience.
Inserting a very demanding and different challenge in the middle of the game narrows the target audience, devs know there will be players losing the challenge. Then the penalty for losing shouldn't suddenly violate softcore rules established at the start of the game. And you know there will be players ignoring "experienced players only" warnings, because they come here to play and relax. You can call it "their own issue, skill issue, whatever", this does not change the fact these challenges do not fit into softcore. Needless to say no other rpg or arpg game practices such insertions of hardcore into softcore. I wonder why. |
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I chose the word infantilizing because GGG clearly already has made considerations. That's why there's a warning in the first place. No, I chose the word because you go from being considerate to overbearing. Path of Exile is not a game that holds your hand, and if Wsomeone heeds all warnings... it's their own darn fault. Let it be a lesson.
The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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" The motto of GGG, at least you've said it plainly and stopped pretending they do considerations about players when pulling div/ex swap or wiping gems (which by the way still show as "alternate" on trade site, meaning there was no technical requirement to wipe them). Indeed, this thinking is the reason poe is what it is, and I stop arguing. |
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I have never, at any point, pretended to have a different opinion. I am very adamant in my belief that not every content is suited for everyone. If you want that Foiled Mageblood, you gotta accept the risk. No freebies for slackers.
The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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" Pretty constructive yea, Im just realistic. The things I listed were all complaints. It's especially funny with all the RF complainers, when the literal build creator says its fine and found a better version of it in ANOTHER thing that many users complained and meme'd on "mana stacking RF LOl". Just constant complaining, no investigating, not working with anything just always whiny. Meanwhile the build creator finds a work around, and even a better version of the skill people played. Similarly, I have seen you on this forum now for years complaining about, who even knows what at this point. And none of the things that you have asked for have changed or gone the way you want. Its like 10 new posts of how bad the game is a day with you, for years. Free to post your opinions all you want, feedback whatever you wanna call it. But at some point it has to be tiresome of just constantly being miserable/the company not listening to you. Mash the clean Last edited by Mashgesture#2912 on Dec 15, 2023, 12:05:59 AM
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" THIS 100%! |
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" for heavens sake... games fundamentals... duuuuude, seriously IT IS OPTIONAL those 100s that gut voided? guess what, IT WAS THEIR OWN FAULT! misjudged the mods, overestimated their build, misplayed okay, internet issues are not quite their fault but still, they risked it THEY CONFIRMED IT lag spikes can happen, rollbacks because of server crash can happen and on top of all you listed the mods how about allowing the player to either be greedy and loot driven and get punished for being overly eager to acquire said item, or skip that map. it is a simple Risk-Reward-Doability evaluation, something we do fairly often in the real world, we evaluate daily, hourly even. " lets wrap it up from bottom to top other arpgs either fail to continuously drag and keep their players, I WONDER WHY... Let's take a look at Diablo 4... Let's say you played the first season, surely you will get at least the same amount of playtime out of the second season before getting bored out, right? RIGHT??? PoE is by far the only game of the genre that actually punishes players for screwing up. Having 10% durability loss on your gear per death? pointless when you have 901.275.907 gold and a 0 to 100 repair costs 15 gold. but 10%? that hurts from 96 onwards... PoEs reputation is to be the Elitist Version of Diablo2 blah blah blah, yet, due to exposure from streamers and tech related media, the average "i can only play 2h a month, because i have 8 jobs, 14 kids, 1 wife and 7 affairs" dad gamer eventually tries out PoE. Now... would you consider that guy a target audience? or more of a side result of media exposure? Now, GGG could take the Activision-Blizzard, well, bobby kotick, route, and say: "we need to milk our players for more of their money, but apparently they get frustrated because bosses are too hard, classes are too difficult to play and they feel excluded from endgame - easy solution: implement mechanics and tools that even the most casual dad gamer gets the same level and amount of reward as someone who is passionate about the game" now... does that sound cool to you? i am totally agreeing that even the most casual gamer, should find their fun in gaming, but this would rather be in Diablo 4, and not in PoE. We dont have the biggest market in arpgs that are good enough to recommend, but at least we have some titles that can be recommended. And to anyone complaining about the void mod being unfair n stuff, i heard Diablo 4 Season 2 is better than Season 1. My point being: you talk about target audience, yet, you arent (apparently) not even part of it. You apparently have never played a challenge league, yet, players returning from a "done with the league, see ya next league" - hiatus are more likely to buy league supporter packs, and that for a couple of reasons... So, in that point, you're disqualified. You have started playing (on this account) in Jan. 2021. You have 6 scions and one witch... no idea how many you deleted, obviously, but if that's your record for 3 years... i dunno, wouldnt strike me as being target audience either. (btw, you play(ed) crit based builds and you never helped alira?! Oo ) not with the intention to roast, flame, front you, but i think that you overestimate the target audience aspect, by a landslide. target audience are basically people actively paying, buying supporter packs on league start and leaving when they have achieved their goals, e.g. 40/40. back to the topic about punishment and rewards another example are bosses, pinnacles and ubers. let's take uber maven as example, if you think you and your character can handle uber maven, but you in fact cannot, you lost a decent amount of time. now, let's take into consideration what the opportunity cost/ reward ratio is. lets say we juice, so we get roughly 1 writ out of a guardian/elderslayer invitation. so far so good, we fight uber maven and we want progenesis: there is generally two things that are commonly happening A. Enter portal, dead. Enter portal, dead. Enter portal, dead. Enter portal, dead. Enter portal, dead. take a breather Enter portal, dead. in which case it just sucks to farm another invitation, not a voided character, yet, it sucks. B. BOOTS! good shit next round BOOTS AGAIN! next round BOOTS AGAIN! this goes on and on, eventually maven currency and woke orbs drop as well. but the flask, not has been seen. now, eventually you will find a valdos box, it has a map which rewards a progenesis, but yields the void mod, everything else is just fine... now, please tell me... would you, while comfortably being able to farm uber maven, actually cry about a t17 map that GUARANTEES progenesis because it has the void mod? iirc manni farmed not only for days, but across 2 or 3 leagues for a nimis. yes, different item, fairly more annoying to farm invitations, but technically the same story. Now, i am dead sure, that he would have taken a nimis map, risking to void his character. because, no matter how eager players are when it comes to superiority (which is honestly the most awkward thing i have ever heard in that context... but whatever) no one would ever risk, and i am dead sure about that, their character getting potentially voided for a celestial foil kaoms sign... The whole "void bad" talk, is honestly nothing but an outrage that a source for potentially good items (who knows what supporters put there) seems out of touch for many, if not even most, players. and hey, taking that superiority thought into consideration... especially if your character gets voided, it shows that true superiority is displayed by proper judgement and knowledge, rather than... i honestly dont even know what you actually wanted to say with the whole paragraph to be honest... to me it was just rubbish that you tried to make sound fancy, while even contradicting yourself, while telling the devs how to treat THEIR CHOSEN target audience... i dunno... trying to argue(?), as you did, is not from a game designers point of view, it's from a players view, a players view that has been conditioned to play dumbed down games, that were made to amass as many players, from all skill levels, as possible. Using phrases like "violate softcore rules established" are basically meaningless... i really liked a build that established back in delirium... the archetype is kinda dead now... i really liked ziz's gauntlets, a well established event as well. OH and i miss the brimmed hat mtx that came every league since, i think harbinger? basically another thing that established - just not a thing anymore. things change eventually. their game, their rules, just as easy. you either deal with it or leave, or you post on reddit or the forums how much you not like it... trying to defend the whole "it is actual punishment, thats a nono for SC" talk, with quite literally saying that players dont read or are too lazy to read... well... i dunno... i personally have already set my expectations pretty low for many many people in this game, but you have put the bar way lower, right there. you can try and find whatever way to argue against the whole thing, it is completely optional content, the only thing that risks their character is themselves - period. and if someone fails such a map, because they ignored it, yes, it is their own damn fault. crossing the road on red light, might as well have consequences, no matter whether i do it intentionally or i listen to music and relax. welcome to the real world. EDIT: " the divine exalt change had, not only but, for the most part to do with the inevitable cracking of the timeless jewels... to keep the economy fairly stabilized... reasonable change to say the least... the alternate gems potentially might not necessarily had to get wiped, might be, but A: they'd have to rebalance all alt qual gems affected by changes, balancing would have to be tested B: i could imagine that the transgems basically ARE the alt qual gems, literally using the database C: Imagine the outrage of keeping legacy gems like alt qual stuff in the game, i mean, you play standard... you actually, of all, should know, understand and agree why it is a good thing... Last edited by SquareCubiC#3528 on Dec 15, 2023, 7:26:31 AM
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I very much dislike these things, pretty much all maps that come out of them that ive seen yet.
Theres pretty much 3 types from what ive observed map 1 is free mageblood/headhunter and its only been a day or so and already 50% of the magebloods on the market are foiled - with 30+ foiled mageblood maps listed, are we gonna see 90% foiled magebloods at 15 div each in a week? map 2 is void your character impossible map(sometimes combined with mageblood reward to tempt you into running it) if its veil of the night i can see a lot of abuse cases that is gonna result in people losing their character (which has no business happening in softcore) opt in isnt the problem here. theres a reason why hardcore and softcore leagues are seperate - as opposed to a shared league but hardcore players get 10 times more loot or something, but by creating insanely rewarding maps which require you to play hardcore you more or less create such an effect, this is bad. also insert op meta build farming 50 magebloods a day while avg build gets deleted, well good chance to reroll meta am i right also when the rewards are this disproportional the choice argument is flawed. what youre really saying is you can choose to be poor or play hardcore except if i wanted to play hardcore i wouldnt play softcore in the first place map 3 is some sort of loot pinata map such as "every non unique item that drops is a currency item". i can already imagine some streamer with his iiq negative rarity ventors setup getting multiple mirrors out of a single giga juiced map with his party, similarly for the duplicate bosses with boss reward modifiers stacked i want a curated, balanced game experience - not the equivalent of a private league with 100000% increased rewards forced upon me, nor do i appreciate these troll maps wasnt there a pretty strict process for unique items and divination cards wherein the balance team made sure that it wasnt going to break the game, when 1 day into the mechanic being added 50% of magebloods are foiled where exactly did that process disappear to? Last edited by derrurak#3882 on Dec 15, 2023, 9:55:34 AM
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" You literally explain PoE here ^.- This is not what happened in Diablo 4. PoE was considerably toned down in difficulty to make it more accessable, which is one of the largest reasons for its success. It used to be a game for more elite players but currently despite the depth it is actually not a hard game to play. You still need a lot of knowledge, but most things are easy to learn and the game is fairly forgiving. " The point of SC literally is to play carefree. Nobody would complain if those maps would only be available in hardcore and SC only has those without permadeath, like it should be. Like what exactly is the benefit of having a map that permakills you? From the maps perspective there isn't really a difference to a map only having one portal, in both cases you only have one shot at the map. At the point you have to put a warning in your game because a mechanic a player encounters is fundamentally different to how the game usually works, you should consider just not doing that. Valdos maps just in general seem to be a mistake. Those maps either give free powerful uniques or kill you, it isn't even that they do both in most cases. |
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