Does Trauma Support 'fix' melee strikes?

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1453R wrote:

Am I wrong? Nobody ever lost a bet around here staking coin on the playerbase being a bunch of sour angry jerks who hate everything and everybody. This is easily the most toxic, awful 'community' I've ever consented to be affiliated with. I'm not sure how Chris and company can say 'we have such an awesome and amazing community' without a grimace of strain on their faces.

support you re gonna moderate this or we can also starts using colorful language too towards this useless person that can write an essay without a single number on melee balance and a single try to define different types of melee so we can have a meaningfull discussion ?

1453 you do like empty babbling for sure.

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1453R wrote:

Because being boring fucking sucks.

I like that you used "boring" here, and not "bored" :P

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Point me at one person in this thread who's willing to call a skill "with some AoE and/or secondary effects" Melee. One.

Me, me, pick me. Everyone and their mother can define "melee" as they want. Hell, some people are defining RF as "melee". Me? I'm sticking to GGG's "melee tag" when I'm discussing their game. I don't think people know what they are asking for when they speak about "true melee", because for that to work, the whole game needs to change, from the speed to the density and also boss mechanics.

But I think I'm starting to get enough of you hyperbole, your religions and your strange judgement of people playing the game as it's intended to be played. I'm kind of hoping PoE 2 will be just as zoomy just to see your reaction. You are using the word "crazy"; what I find crazy, is how much you hate fast gameplay, and how much you seem to be annoyed that people are liking it and having fun.

@SerialF

If you actually want to talk facts and numbers go ahead because those are kinda non existant on your side as well. Lot's of vague stuff about making stuff (feel) good/better, real melee, budget constraints and how range is so much better there compared to melee but nothing clear and concrete.
What's your idea of good/better? Numbers? What is "real melee"? How much AOE is allowed? Are projectiles allowed? How much strike range? What about Savior clones?
Where are concrete build and budget comparisons? I can do pinnacle content for 50c on a melee build where is that 5 c caster build that does the same 10 times faster that everyone is talking about?

I'd REALLY like to see something concrete here but all I ever got in more melee debates than I even bothered to count is vague generalized platitudes with no backup. And it usually comes from people with 1 or less melee builds in their profiles... I was seriously shocked just now to find out that you actually play melee because it's so freaking rare these days.

It seems that fixing melee in PoE is very difficult if not impossible. Fixing melee would probably require to create defensive mechanics/skills exclusive to some classes/ascendancy and that contradicts PoE idea (creating melee archetype with exclusive very effective defence mechanics and by extent creating other archetypes, dismantling poe tree, fracturing it). Melee skills can be fixed, be efficient but effectively they more and more resemble range skills and melee character is not very different from range character. Or maybe there is a solution... but it seems that fixing melee would require to create distinctive archetype with exclusive skills, abilities, gameplay.

funny to tell me this without a single number in any of your message. first in the melee thread with ben video, he talks about cleave / molten strike / old spectral helix. except for all the useless "damage does nothing" i havent seen a singe rebutal to his numbers. You could say I didnt put numbers in there but it s because I totally agree with his spectral and cleave numbers so I didnt feel like I had to back it up, he is ben after all. So why even discuss numbers with people at this level when ben makes a very clear and concise points and all we can see is essay with thousands of words that dont address his points.

anyway, i could point you towards a previous post i made.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3219669
and as you can see, i was right but way off, ben says it easily triple hit andd can quadruple with slower proj !!
so

sweep 196
spec helix 825/1100
do i need to talk about the explode totem build ?

but dont worry, i am getting ggg message with yet another confirmation with explody totems and vengeant cascade and now the boneshatter support most certainly that they like it this way. they like big outliers that have duoble/triple damage compared to other skills.

as it s been said, if you only get the scaling as a supp gem, and not the 30% more damage you lost from another link, it means bone shatter will have the equivalent of one more support. message received. but ofc we will see, I just would be very surprised that they compensate the loss of a 30% supp gem.

could also talk about splitting steel for leveling with its built in overlapp and base attack speed. it s a level 1 gem btw that you can mule !

I didn't rebuke his numbers because I don't really disagree with them. I don't mind if they adjust Cleave to hit with 100% of both weapons instead of 60% (that's the only suggestion he made towards Cleave, at least the only one i heard, i didn't watch the whole thing so i might have missed something).

The thing I disagree with is whether or not Cleave will be a "good" skill after that by any remotely objective measure. If Ben says it would be a good skill for him after that change then i can't really argue with that because it's his subjective opinion. I am pretty confident that making that change isn't going to change Cleaves usage by more than +0,1 percent, if at all. It's likely going to end up being a meme like that radius buff.

There are several different groups of players complaining about melee. The 3 biggest group by my estimate are:

1) People who don't know how to build defense and therefore fail constantly with every melee build they make

2) People who always take the easy way out by playing what's most busted.

3) People who value currency/hr more than any thing and make build choices accordingly.

Tweaking some damage numbers isn't going to solve or change shit for any of them.


If i could make a wishlist for melee related changes it would be 4 things:

1) Remove ancestor totems and put 50-100% of their power into the melee gems depending on how good they are already. Earthshatter and Molten Strike would be fine with 50, Tec Slam could need 100%.

2) Rebalance melee weapons to get their power more in line. Right now there is an absurdly large gap in terms of power/cost efficiency between the tier 1 uniques (Star/Voidforge, Disfavour, Paradoxica, Savior) and pretty much everything else. Other uniques are cheap but utterly useless for the most part while rares need to be mirror tier to even compete. This disparity shoehorns melee builds into always making the same gear choices.

3) Change certain degen ground mechanics from bosses like those from Exarch and Sirus who are extremely hostile towards melee.

4) If there are still melee gems with less than 100% base speed after getting the totem speed boost built into them, buff them to 100% base speed.

That still wouldn't make melee "good" by any means and it won't have much impact on the 3 main groups but i'd wager that any of the above suggestions would have way more impact on melee viability, playability and usage than any tweaks to their base damage ever could.

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1453R wrote:

I'm not sure how Chris and company can say 'we have such an awesome and amazing community' without a grimace of strain on their faces.

It is rather simple those, little boards here )or reddit) are not representative for the whole community at all.

You see few post here and PoE is the worst game ever. PoE2 is going to be even worse.

This must be very sad and depressing for developers, but then, they see that:

Millions of players are playing their game every league.

Thousands of players are watching content creators playing their game.

They see how many players are buying packs, boxes, MTX'es.


Let's be honest, what are a few dozens (at best) of begrudged poster who linger those boards, when compared to millions who actually play the game? It is not even 1% of community, it is not even 0.1%, probably not even 0.01%. It is good to be critical, but is also good to realize that you might be part of very tiny minority. A lot of posters here, kind of forgets about that.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I didn't rebuke his numbers because I don't really disagree with them. I don't mind if they adjust Cleave to hit with 100% of both weapons instead of 60% (that's the only suggestion he made towards Cleave, at least the only one i heard, i didn't watch the whole thing so i might have missed something).

I'd play cleave with a change like that, would love to do it.

No it wouldn't make a huge number of people play it either you are right about that but you are looking for incremental improvements, its is the state of melee better or worse than last league? If its better I think we are moving in the right direction.

If they did a similar tier of buff to another 10 melee skills that all got like 0.2% playing them that is 2% more representation for melee, how can that not be an improvement?

You won't get a huge swing unless they do a patch like legion but I personally don't think a huge swing is a good thing.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

The thing I disagree with is whether or not Cleave will be a "good" skill after that by any remotely objective measure. If Ben says it would be a good skill for him after that change then i can't really argue with that because it's his subjective opinion. I am pretty confident that making that change isn't going to change Cleaves usage by more than +0,1 percent, if at all. It's likely going to end up being a meme like that radius buff.

So long as cleave can do comparable damage to Boneshatter I would easily take Cleave. There are some pretty big positives for cleave if damage is similar. With proper gear and spec you can clear almost the entire screen in a few seconds.