Does Trauma Support 'fix' melee strikes?

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Phrazz wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

As a melee only player (no slams and I do have one frost blades character that I did enjoy playing, but it felt more like shooting a gun) I have adjusted my game play with the understanding that pinnacle bosses are mostly out of my reach and I just enjoy the upper limits of what my guys can do. Boneshatter is by far the best I have. I have a Vaal Reave in Standard that I like to play but it is not as good as my boneshatter guy there. Oh well.

I hope for melee improvements every league. I would like to see Cleave made viable once again.

People were doing Ubers with Frost Blades this league, so it is doable. But to reach that level, you need some serious investment. I've invested quite a lot of divines into my Frost Blades character this league and it's 'almost' Uber viable, at least for someone that knows their mechanics.

So it begs the question: How much investment is "OK" for doing the toughest content in the game, and how accessible should it be? Personally, I'm totally OK with the fact that I'm not really able to do them. Yet. Gives me something to strive towards.

But I still think they should ease the investment needed on some/most melee builds, especially early on.

Well, I'm a mediocre player that does not like to grind the same content over and over. I've never seen a mirror in 10,000+ hours and in this league fewer than 20 divines. I'm richer in standard where I do play and rebuild characters. I am also a bit reckless and do like to be able to waltz in and face tank bosses; learning boss fights through videos or multiple failing efforts is not really my style. I can live with my limitations. I will look at your frost blades guy since I was thinking that freezing might be good in 3.22. I can even test it out in standard first.

In a new league I am usually good for 10+ divines if I am lucky.

melee is fine. only thing i would probably buff is fortify giving 20% dmg reduction since most of the dmg you encounter in game that kills you is magical. thats why suppress gear is so popular.

there is this tribal fury node that every strike skill that doesnt have inbuilt in aoe should take... or doesnt have additional targets like boneshatter should take the +1strike targets mastery or glove implicit. before the remake to wheel and mastery(and eldrich currency) i just swapped ancestral call with boneshatter - played that way back in scourge when it was probably introduced... and jugger wasnt reworked either.

boneshatter is so popular due to ssfhardcore streamers, but its good for regular joe too since you can beat the game with rare gear - you dont need to know some strong unique interactions to buff your dps. skill has inbuilt like 60-80% more multiplier so you get 2 free links even if your weapon is not well crafted.

you can pick up emperors vigilance for like half a div and do all content with shield crush. you can do impale, you can do doryani or cold with heatshiver. you can pick two replica dreamfeathers for half a div with champ and do all content. you can pick brutus lead sprinkler or pillar of the caged god which are like 2c uniques and do all content. only problem is you must know what are you doing and how to scale your dmg. its not like melee isnt viable and even for cheap, its game knowledge that is stopping you.

and on topic of dmg - it is the main thing that really matters. even on a not so strong skill you can do all content if you scale it properly and have good time in maps with tribal fury and +1strike target mastery.

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Valkaneer wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

As a melee only player (no slams and I do have one frost blades character that I did enjoy playing, but it felt more like shooting a gun) I have adjusted my game play with the understanding that pinnacle bosses are mostly out of my reach and I just enjoy the upper limits of what my guys can do. Boneshatter is by far the best I have. I have a Vaal Reave in Standard that I like to play but it is not as good as my boneshatter guy there. Oh well.

I hope for melee improvements every league. I would like to see Cleave made viable once again.

Cleave is viable, but... you need to spend a mirror to do it. I was rolling a cleave build and it was doing just fine, this very league, but fact is Boneshatter does everything cleave does better. Travic made a cleave build last league that could clear nearly the entire screen in a sec or two, but he spent over a mirror doing it.

Cleave is a fun build for me. I often pair it with HS, but as we all know it not as good as Boneshatter or Reave for those of us who are not rich in the leagues. Now in Standard, I might be able get close to such a build as Travic's. Is travic his forum name? I'll look him up.

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Phrazz wrote:

You're very fond of telling people what others would and wouldn't do.

Am I wrong? Nobody ever lost a bet around here staking coin on the playerbase being a bunch of sour angry jerks who hate everything and everybody. This is easily the most toxic, awful 'community' I've ever consented to be affiliated with. I'm not sure how Chris and company can say 'we have such an awesome and amazing community' without a grimace of strain on their faces.

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Phrazz wrote:

You know, I think most of the people you are describing as "Melee Complainers" are actually people already playing melee, and would just want some adjustment/buffs to not make it feel like they're handicapping themselves just by playing what they want to.

Most Melee Complainers probably make fifty times the currency I do and effortlessly clear content I'll never get to see because they know the Religion of Zoom magic secrets for squeezing outrageous gobshytes of currency out of thin air. Choice of skill is not what determines who is or is not "handicapped" save at the absolute very highest tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a percentile where players are competing to see who can reach 1B Uber DPS first - not to see who can reach it at all, but who can get there first.

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Phrazz wrote:

Why are you unable to discuss anything without tons of derogatory terms and kilograms of hyperbole?

Because being boring fucking sucks. And if I'm going to constantly get fed bucketloads of scorn and derision and ignorance and bile for not being a Religion of Zoom magic-currency ultrachad, I'm gonna give some of it back. I am a driven and spiteful gal who delights in colorful words and evocative imagery. When given a choice between saying "this isn't very good" or "I don't think I like this", or saying "this shit sucks more ass than a procologist's Shop Vac", I will always choose the latter.

Either be amused by my presentation or annoyed by my grandiosity, but I recommend against expecting me to change it. Been this way since I was, like...six and writing stories in my school notebook, the only time you will ever get Calm, Boring Reasoned Discourse out of my is when my blood is ice-cold and I am utterly uninvested in whatever I'm apparently discussing out of momentary boredom. Moment I actually give a shit? Ya gettin' the Rainbow Cannon because I will throw as much color as it takes.

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Phrazz wrote:

As long as a melee skill has some AoE and/or secondary effects, it doesn't really take that much to bring melee up to a point where it's viable enough.

Point me at one person in this thread who's willing to call a skill "with some AoE and/or secondary effects" Melee. One. Every SINGLE time I've seen one of these threads, the Melee Complainers in it are snarling about how Grinding Gear keeps "fixing" melee by introducing what Valkaneer called "quasi melee" skills, and then bitching about how those skills are even worse than bow or spell skills because they dare have the sheer unmitigated gall to Pretend to the Throne of TRUE MELEE. I have been informed and educated over years and years of watching Melee Complainers Complain about Melee that the only thing which qualifies as "MELEE" is a basic strike skill that targets ONE thing and hits that ONE thing ONE TIME. Not even Double Strike is "MELEE" because it hits two times, and that's just One God Damn Time Too Many.

Is it absolutely batshit insane? Yes.

Does it denote a complete and utter lack of understanding of how modern* Path of Exile works? Yes.

Has that ever once stopped one of them? Nope.

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Phrazz wrote:

How long has it actually been since you did serious endgame progress with a melee character?

Aforementioned 3.15 Frost Blades Raider. Which of course does not count as "MELEE" to Melee Complainers because Frost Blades. Have I ever played a point-blank, single-target-only Strike build with absolutely no AoE? No, and I'm never going to. I rarely play melee builds in the first place, I have a strong preference for archers, spellcasters, or my ever-frustrated desire for a proper spellblade. That's honestly probably why I vibe so much on Frost Blades, it kinda scratches that spellblade "I unleash devastating magic with a stroke of my blade" itch that's otherwise far too expensive to ever sort properly. I'd still dearly love to get my Winter Knight to work, but alas. Blade Flurry has Seen Better Days, Cast While Channeling hasn't worked in years, and Cospri's Malice just ain't what it used to be.

to little info to see if its going to save melee strikes or be just another mediocre support

is it going to be more damage or more phys damage?, i can see elemental hit going berserk if it was more damage.

is it going to apply to other effects of the skill like infernal blow explosion or prismatic burst support.

can it be used on minions?

you either have no aoe skills or all skills are aoe since the one skill that is aoe will clear maps 10 times faster than other skills, no other way around that. melee is still melee even if its aoe. lightning strike can be sort of exception since you dont need to hit the target for projectiles to hit, but then you get half the dps. you can sort of kite with it for half the dps. good luck kitting with frostblades...

show me how you offscrean mobs with cleave like you can do with bows and would agree cleave is not true melee.

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Valkaneer wrote:

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rapind wrote:

Anyways, I was just stating that "technically" boneshatter is showing top ST DPS this league on poeninja at over 3b. Maybe that's cooked DPS, but it also happens to be the deepest delver this league (as usual).

Rudy didn't move into the deepest Delve build till week 7. Most people quite 4 weeks before he even was on the board.

Week 6 the deepest delve was 5982, that was a Blazing Salvo build. Week 6 the deepest Boneshatter build was.... 2502.

Rudy has what might be a multi mirror build going on in week 7 and looks like the same week he made the character.

Yes someone threw so much currency into a build that he could lots of damage, what's new in PoE? But mirror build is not what should be called the standard. Subtractem the other day was talking about what he considerers a reasonable starter build. He said being able to get all his void stones for 10D or less.

How many melee builds can do that? 1? Crafting and 800 pDPS axe can cost you 10D if your a little unlucky alone.

Rudy started an explode totem sabo build first because he’s bored with Boneshatter Jugg being so dominant. He totally could have started it. I don’t mean to speak for him but he mentioned hating that Boneshatter was the strongest delver in his reddit post on his sabo build and that he wouldn’t mind if it was nerfed.

As for Subtractems goals, that’s perfectly fine, but for me, my league start build’s only purpose is to get me to my real build. If it’s easier to farm the currency to buy my void stones so be it.

Boneshatter has been solid AF for quite a few leagues now, especially in SC trade. Anyone saying different is just wrong.

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Phrazz wrote:

People were doing Ubers with Frost Blades this league, so it is doable. But to reach that level, you need some serious investment. I've invested quite a lot of divines into my Frost Blades character this league and it's 'almost' Uber viable, at least for someone that knows their mechanics.

That Frost Blade Trickster build isn't a good example. The build is a complete glasscannon plus large parts of it's DPS depend on you being able to freeze the target which in case of ubers requires tons of DPS to start with. It's one of those cases where you either stack DPS to the point of just oneshotting it or you don't stand a chance at all. That's why it's so expensive.

This league with VC being what it is and Crucible trees you can do ubers with <20 div investment easily. Assuming only VC get's nerfed you can likely do it next league as well with a bit more investment. Maybe not all the ubers since Exarch and Sirus are really troublesome if you can't just blast them into orbit on the spot but the rest isn't that big of a deal.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Boneshatters consistent and regular usage despite it being a single skill shows that if a melee skill has suitable scaling, built in melee splash and doesn't use the trashbox swing animations it will see plenty of use.

The first two are damage numbers, the last one is an attack speed number. Nothing else to it.

So you seriously summarize stuff like bigger AOE and better animations as "damage increases"? Talk about stretching definitions here...

No they are summarised by budget which damage also is summarised by. This isn't an advanced concept. You are playing a league where exploding totems dominated every league type ffs

my character of the league was splitting steel, I finally got to play a well rounded boss killer with it.. I wonder why. Damage even fixes non viable ranged skills too.

Melee is no different, I can fix the clear, tankiness, boss killing, I can even fix the animation sucking but everything has budgetary constraints it has to contend with.

1453R talking about people memeing for 15x damage doesn't help, that was old molten strike btw if you wanted proof that massive damage does make something playable even with shit mechanics ^^ but 15x damage is vastly more than is needed because balance is important.

As a final note they should have fixed the animation problem anyway as that one has no impact on their end, its pure feel and its an easy fix they just care so little about making good melee changes that they won't take anything but the most low hanging fruit. Its also the one that grates on me the most, I enjoy melee too much to let a worse character overall stop me but by god that animation with a slow 2h for infernal blow compared to before they made that change is night and day.

Yes, a big rework of the melee concept would be more interesting, but this is hardly possible in the current PoE, so we (GGG) will sit and think about how to do it (5-10-20 leagues) without buffing melee in any way right now, instead of just adding numbers for crap skills or increase the base damage of melee weapons (yes, its stupid to just add numbers, but its definitely better than doing nothing and ignoring melee classes). Boneshatter is the only strong melee skill, since the skill causes to stack defense and attack speed, giving damage for it, almost all other skills are garbage.

I love playing slams and haven't seen them buff in a century. Slams are a large cluster of melee skills and there is still no slam mastery, given that slams are at the bottom for an endless number of leagues.

With more raw damage, there will be more maneuver to create a melee build, and you can invest more in defense.

So yes, a dumb damage boost is better than nothing, than just sitting AFK.

Thanks.