PoE Density is so good.

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roundishcap wrote:

Poe mob density would be ok of the servers could handle it. Juicing is lag city. Just look at mf party groups. Some had like 15 seconds of lag from incursion. In fact empyrean knew how bad the kalandra loot nerfs were because he wasn't lagging. Those nerfs still haven't been reverted btw, at least other games drop things for killing monsters. Poe is basically a trade graph simulator with no fun trade tools.

Poe in ssf is miles ahead of D4 as far as loot drops go. Its honestly not even close. Class based loot is garbage. Monster scaling is garbage. Poe is the king and poe2 is looking good af. If they update the endgame to match whats in the trailers its up for everyone.

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Malice4201 wrote:

Poe in ssf is miles ahead of D4 as far as loot drops go. Its honestly not even close. Class based loot is garbage. Monster scaling is garbage.

I really hate "smart loot" and monster scaling. I hate that the world is changing/scaling/adapting to YOU, and not the other way around. It removes A LOT of the sense of progression. Your character feels more or less the exact same at level 10 as it does at level 100, as you mostly just scale damage - as the monster also do. You're no longer a character in the world - the world is just a mirror of your character.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Malice4201 wrote:

Poe in ssf is miles ahead of D4 as far as loot drops go. Its honestly not even close. Class based loot is garbage. Monster scaling is garbage.

I really hate "smart loot" and monster scaling. I hate that the world is changing/scaling/adapting to YOU, and not the other way around. It removes A LOT of the sense of progression. Your character feels more or less the exact same at level 10 as it does at level 100, as you mostly just scale damage - as the monster also do. You're no longer a character in the world - the world is just a mirror of your character.

Good point. So many of my characters in PoE were inspired by drops I got from older characters. If all my drops "reflect" the character in play, that'll almost never happen. ='[.]'=

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Phrazz wrote:

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Malice4201 wrote:

Poe in ssf is miles ahead of D4 as far as loot drops go. Its honestly not even close. Class based loot is garbage. Monster scaling is garbage.

I really hate "smart loot" and monster scaling. I hate that the world is changing/scaling/adapting to YOU, and not the other way around. It removes A LOT of the sense of progression. Your character feels more or less the exact same at level 10 as it does at level 100, as you mostly just scale damage - as the monster also do. You're no longer a character in the world - the world is just a mirror of your character.

That's the trade-off when you want a MMO type game world to be relevant at all times, and moving forward with live service.

Many games see expansions post launch, and what it does is isolate the player where that new content is (island or zone or whatever)

There are drawbacks to this, you can't go back and farm lower areas per se, or feel more powerful (but you can adjust world tiers)

And as far as smart loot goes, it's not 100%. You definitely find off class items, and also currencies transfer over the whole account, so you can gamble on alts while farming a main.

Anyways it's admittedly different. I can see why it annoys some people, no doubt. It doesn't bother me particularly, but you are right it does stunt progression feel until you hit skill or gear breakpoints.

I don't how genuine overleveling and outperforming an area feels in a standard arpg situation, but I always advocate for player agency and choice, which D4 doesn't offer in with this concept. If you don't like it unfortunately you have no recourse.

Edit: for clarity when people are lvl 95+ in PoE and farm lower maps for currency fast, I don't think that's awesome either. But people have a choice there, and they don't in D4.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

And as far as smart loot goes, it's not 100%.

Yeah, it's 80%, I think? Anyhow, 100% would be a real gamebreaker for me. But it's more the principle for me: That the game/RNG changes/adjusts based on what you play. MF is one thing (and I don't really like that either, but that doesn't really change the TYPE of items dropped). I really don't know if I dislike it based on replayability with alts, immersion, if it's severely limiting the sense of luck/dopamine or if it's just gets repetitive because of the itemization, as I hardly feel like there's any real differences between items (I understand this might change in late-to-end-game, as I've only played the betas).

Anyhow, I understand that a lot of people prefer it, and I understand why. That's why I'll always just sticking to "hating it" rather than calling it "bad", even though... Well :P

Regarding the rest of your post: I've tried a lot of MMO's over the years, but not a single one has won me over. Ever. That's why I was VERY skeptical regarding all of the MMO elements in D4, from the open world, the scaling to the world bosses. And I still don't think the MMO elements in D4 are rooted into the story. Who are all these strangers running around in MY story, and do Lilith treat them the same as me? And why are this level 6 Barb killing monsters faster than me? But I am old, the world is changing, and soon even Bethesda games will probably be MMO's.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's not really what I meant. Anyone can log similar hours into both games. In PoE however you have Manifestos, huge patch notes, massive balance swings, meta shifts, mechanical and crafting changes, and more. It's likely if you took more than a couple leagues away, you won't know what the fuck is going on in PoE. If you have a character in standard your passive tree gets reset or your build doesn't work anymore and you won't know why often times.

You have to spend many hours not even playing the game in PoE to stay up with it, in addition to the game knowledge requirements which far exceed anything in D4.

Also D4 has alternative leveling, with universal boosts so you dont have to start a campaign fresh every single time you want to try a new character. It's just way more player friendly investment wise.

The only thing patch notes and balance changes affect are the people chasing the absolute pinnacle of the meta every patch. The primary driver of new things if you log into the game after 2-4 leagues off is whatever leagues went core (or were rebalanced like Abyss/Breach this patch), new skill gems, and whatever big changes they made to the end game system.

You know, like, content? There is no one who last played in Sentinel who would truly 'not know what the fuck is going on' in Crucible beyond the normal this-is-new-to-me learning just like us every-league players experience on day 1 of a league.

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innervation wrote:

The only thing patch notes and balance changes affect are the people chasing the absolute pinnacle of the meta every patch. The primary driver of new things if you log into the game after 2-4 leagues off is whatever leagues went core (or were rebalanced like Abyss/Breach this patch), new skill gems, and whatever big changes they made to the end game system.

That's not exactly true though - all my pre 3.15 characters are completely unplayable, because they don't have the mana to cast their skills, have no defenses as far as current PoE is concerned, and are unplayable without a complete re-gearing.

For post 3.15 characters, the scourge one mechanically functions but was unplayable in AN times becuase it simply wasn't prepared to deal with them, not sure how he fares against the recent stuff. The AN toon is fine, the Sentinel character is completely unplayable due to minion nerfs in Lake, and the Lake and Sanctum characters are fine.

By unplayable I mean 'can't alch'n'go red maps' while most of the characters had 36/40 in their respective leagues.

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innervation wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's not really what I meant. Anyone can log similar hours into both games. In PoE however you have Manifestos, huge patch notes, massive balance swings, meta shifts, mechanical and crafting changes, and more. It's likely if you took more than a couple leagues away, you won't know what the fuck is going on in PoE. If you have a character in standard your passive tree gets reset or your build doesn't work anymore and you won't know why often times.

You have to spend many hours not even playing the game in PoE to stay up with it, in addition to the game knowledge requirements which far exceed anything in D4.

Also D4 has alternative leveling, with universal boosts so you dont have to start a campaign fresh every single time you want to try a new character. It's just way more player friendly investment wise.

The only thing patch notes and balance changes affect are the people chasing the absolute pinnacle of the meta every patch. The primary driver of new things if you log into the game after 2-4 leagues off is whatever leagues went core (or were rebalanced like Abyss/Breach this patch), new skill gems, and whatever big changes they made to the end game system.

You know, like, content? There is no one who last played in Sentinel who would truly 'not know what the fuck is going on' in Crucible beyond the normal this-is-new-to-me learning just like us every-league players experience on day 1 of a league.

Just completely untrue. The most recent mastery changes and mana reservation nerfs altered many builds. Not to mention meta skills and items get gutted over time.

Hell if you were breach enjoyer and/or you used a skin of the lords last league, you would in fact, have no idea what in God's name happened in Crucible.

love how people complain about density when POE density is 99% made of paper.

fact is... in POE you can afk in the middle of large packs with builds, D4 even a basic white mob will kill you if you let it(also doesn't die when being breathed on, need to hit it)

its a nice change of pace over PHD required to make a great build, pointless loot(just get currency) and trash that falls over and never presents a threat to the player market simulation game.

will play both ofc, gotta grind them mirrors to let them collect dust for no reason.

also being level 100 is overrated, the game is in the journey, not at the finish line(just think back on D2... how many of you were closer to level 90 than 99 and having a blast... oh and small monster packs there to)

I can't believe the logic of smart loot bad when 99.99 percent of all items in poe can't realistically be used.

Loot is bad
Creating is bad

They should change something.

Poe is just like:

Did you remember to go and stack 16 types of damage multipliers. No, get gud scrub. Go read the correct wiki. Go look at a pub were the writer just flues numbers and lies. Dig through one of like 3 reddit for dev comments how this skill didn't act like every other skill.

I mean seriously we have
Watcher's eyes
Blight annoits
Lab enchants
Elevated mods or exarch/Eater mods
Harvest enchants
Lab belt enchants
Stacking cluster jewels notables
Metamorph quality currency
Rare essence mods.
Beast/delve unique crafting options
Unique incursion mods
Breach ring crafts
Crucible trees (this league and they suck for the most part)
Betrayal unveils...

And I am sure I have forgetting like 10 things.


Instead of gamble crafting an item through this rigamorale of bs, I would rather have smart loot and set items. At least those are feasible to get. And honestly this is a problem that ggg did to themselves. When leveling in the campaign the drops feel nice because I can use literally whatever. But because they have to balance around builds doing 300,000 dps and 30,000,000,000 dps the game just falls apart at the seams.

At least other devs know to put it limits on what players can do. GGG is eventually going to have do that. And they know it, look how they adjusted the twister build because players literally were crashing the server.

They had to decimate item drops because of magic find groups. (My conspiracy theory at least) so why not throw players a big bug. Make crafting not a crapshoot. Make monsters actually drop good items. Like let us find elevated mods on precrafted random rares from pinnacle bosses, let items drop with cannot roll attack/ caster mods.