Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a VERY different game from everyone else...

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Don't you use TFT? Or am i confusing you with someone else? If so i apologize.

Anyhow i just wanted to say if that is the case, then you most definitely are playing a different game from everyone else.

Maybe not literally but the reports from every TFT user before and after using it indicates the profit margins are way out of wack if you're a member of that community versus not a member just in item availability alone, so much is taken off the market and sold exclusively there which i would have had access to prior to this whole mess and i did very well because of it.. its hurting more and more now when i have to spend an hour to buy a single map instead of hundreds of them with relative ease only a few patches before this community took the game by storm.

TFT is the worst thing to happen to POE. It would be better if it didnt exist.

"

viuvadod2 wrote:

Do you need to buy wheels for your car?

Hell no, you can spend years and years trying to understand how to produce one and developing the necessary technology, gathering/making the necessary materials for that.

How about you produce your own car as well, a little more complex now, right? So add years and years and years on end, maybe you won't even be alive anymore trying to do all that on your own. This is you playing a game so complex like POE without the use of third party tools. Doable? Hell yeah, but not time efficient at all.

Most of us don't have this much free time to play, as we have RL jobs, families and so on. So we cannot afford to "build our own cars", we have to resort to third party tools (buy cars from car companies!).

Hope it helps!

Cheers.

You only have to resort to those third party tools because some of them made it so that you have to.

I used to bulk trade all the time including before the bulk trading support and now i can barely get someone to sell me a single map where as i used to buy whole inventory's of them on the regular and of a specific type too not just random ones.

Your time was stolen from you Exile. by those who don't play this as a game but a real life means of making that $$$$

Those conveniences for some came at a cost to everyone else, i have played pretty consistently since 2013 and i see most of these tools causing more damage than good including PoB though i think the intentions behind PoB were pure the effects of it as a whole haven't been quite what i was hoping since its introduction.

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Thesuffering wrote:

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Don't you use TFT? Or am i confusing you with someone else? If so i apologize.

Anyhow i just wanted to say if that is the case, then you most definitely are playing a different game from everyone else.

Maybe not literally but the reports from every TFT user before and after using it indicates the profit margins are way out of wack if you're a member of that community versus not a member just in item availability alone, so much is taken off the market and sold exclusively there which i would have had access to prior to this whole mess and i did very well because of it.. its hurting more and more now when i have to spend an hour to buy a single map instead of hundreds of them with relative ease only a few patches before this community took the game by storm.

TFT is the worst thing to happen to POE. It would be better if it didnt exist.

It is but its a symptom not the disease. Its so much easier to sell in bulk there, its so much easier getting carry, craft and other.

Their blacklist even though not perfect even though some people that shouldn't be banned are still give you more protection than anything GGG does. Its not surprising they exist even if you could delete them another group like that would just appear.

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Pashid wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

PoE is absolutely reliant on 3rd party tools in its current scope realistically.

Do you need any third party stuff to launch or run the game? are you forced to use any of the tools? nope, so your statement is entirely wrong diabloski.

Close to every game has third party tools and stuff, even D4 already has plenty of handy and useful third party stuff made by the community and not Activision Blizzard itself.
Pretty much every game, not just PoE comes with a large range of tools or helpful websites which are not entirely necessary or required to play and enjoy the game, but handy to use to enhance your experience or to help you with min-maxing of stats.

If you read my post I said they were not needed to play. That was never the arguement. However most players are reliant on some of these tools to enjoy the game. Whether that's PoB, or Craft of Exile, TFT, custom filters, Awakened PoE trade, and so on. If you removed those, it would dramatically impact the game both in playerbase and overall experience. I don't think that's really up for deabte if we are being honest with each other.

I never said PoE was the only game with 3rd party tools, I mean cmon. But I will say the amount GGG has outsourced to the community has become... problematic imo.

@silent: nope not me, never used TFT, never needed or wanted to. Never ran into any trade issues. I had a very similar thread AGAINST someone else who kept saying TFT was necessary to play the game...

Yes, I didn't think about the fact that I DO use neversink which is another 3rd party software...

I played PoE for a solid 5 years (if not longer) without EVER using PoB, Neversink, or any other 3rd party software EXCEPT poe trade. But even poe trade came 2+ years into my career with PoE.

As I mentioned earlier, the only reason I use certain 3rd party software like PoB now is to save time: yes, I have a job and yes I'm very busy. Sometimes I just want the work done for me ahead of time.

I guess I wasn't totally clear in my post: I'm not talking about what veterans might do in this game. Yes, at some time the more experienced players look to builds/3rd party software/etc. to optimize far beyond what you might think of just on your own. Even spending time on the forums can give you plenty of ideas

BUT

I see posts from players who don't even TRY to play the game cold. From day 1, they copy a build, or they do what a streamer tells them, or they download xyz programs, and then rage when they can't figure out things in the game. People don't even TRY to understand the game, it's like they are plagiarizing...you learn nothing by blindly copying others, ESPECIALLY at the start of the game. Hell, even players who have spent multiple years "playing" PoE show a complete ignorance of some of the most basic concepts because for YEARS they let other people do all their thinking AND playing for them.

Even if you only have 1-2 hours a day to play...you can do PLENTY on your own! But there is some sort of active REFUSAL to just sit down and enjoy the game. No: people need everything handed to them, they need x because streamer said so. They need to follow a build because "time". These are such crappy excuses.

I get that PoE was a much smaller game back in the day...I really do. But exalt/eternal crafting, the passive tree, the abundance of skills, that has all been around since 1.0 and there was no PoB/neversink/vorici/mass 3rd party software to use. And guess what? People did just fine! There was legit talking in-game and the trade channel ACTUALLY worked (for a short time...).

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jsuslak313 wrote:

@silent: nope not me, never used TFT, never needed or wanted to. Never ran into any trade issues. I had a very similar thread AGAINST someone else who kept saying TFT was necessary to play the game...

Sorry about that then, Clearly not 100% after touching grass.

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viuvadod2 wrote:

Do you need to buy wheels for your car?

Maybe you misunderstand him. In this case, he just stands up and walks.

I did understand ppl including myself demanding for better user interface (a tool for the interaction, software on the digital console such like PoE, PoB or any website) and figured the reason.

Let's take an interface as a procedure and call it p1.
If this procedure didn't work, we make it better one, let's say p2.
What if p2 didn't work ? We make it better, p3 and so on.

This procedure is so-called "infinity".
Actually, this includes what-if's so we better call it theoretical infinity.

Are we really dealing with this procedure ? Not really but computing does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine

I guess some ppl going crazy dealing with theoretical infinity.

^yes to the walking thing. But you could also say: of course you don't need to buy wheels for the car, the car COMES with wheels. PoE comes fully formed with everything you need to play it within the game.

It's hard to separate my main argument from the fact that YES ABSOLUTELY there are huge issues with the game. Lack of information, Act 1/2 is just plain too hard post-buff, Trade sucks, Passive tree flexibility is lacking. All these are TRUE. But it is EQUALLY TRUE that, even with all these issues, you do not NEED 3rd party software to enjoy, play, or learn the game. You might NEED 3rd party software LATER for optimization, but you get so much more out of each program by actually learning the workings of the game and playing it.

Drive the car you just bought, and then if you get a flat tire (and you can't fix it yourself) hire someone else to fix it. Unless you are stupid rich, you don't buy yourself a car just to have someone else drive it...

"

you do not NEED 3rd party software to enjoy, play, or learn the game.

You are right about the "play" part as much as a hollow argument that is given how you lock yourself out of several core mechanics, but enjoyment is a very subjective thing.
Maybe you can enjoy the game that way but you've got to accept that most people don't.
As for the learn part, how are you ever supposed to learn how things work without looking them up somewhere? The intrisics of most defensive layers for example aren't exactly something you can figure out by testing, no matter how much time you spend on it. Even finding out what damage types a given monster uses would be a massive drag, never mind specific mechanics like penetration. There is so much necessary knowledge about this game that you can't learn by just playing it. It might be fine for the campaign but beyond that it just gets worse and worse.

Just walk you say, did you ever have a job 50 or 100 miles away from your living place? I'd like to see you walk there. You insist on purely theoretical possibilities here completely ignoring reality. Sure you CAN travel from Paris to Peking by foot but come on, who in his right mind is ever going to that?

OT:

Just checked with Google Maps.

3,087 hours of walking (14,927 km) from Paris to Bejing.

Yes, that is actually a proper comparison. Thats how it would feel to play PoE without 3rd party tools.

PoB is, in reality, a must have.