Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a VERY different game from everyone else...

Making it to maps is IMO different from killing Maven. Maps is core progression, but honestly you can just go without doing Maven, I know I did this league (and previous leagues) and didn't feel that much missing.

Pinnacle bosses while a worthy goal aren't as core to the game as mapping is. They give you voidstones sure, but you can just do the baby Searing Exarch and Eater and be content. Besides people in Trade can purchase carries for the other two, and they definitely do.

Also, do you guys notice that any links you post get removed? Yelling about "here's my source" and then [removed by Support] looks kinda comical...

"

SerialF wrote:

konga crucible chars

1 lvl 75 , 1 lvl 31,
and impeding doom pathfinder lvl 95
and HC char lvl 58 , guess what skill, boneshatter ?

hahaha, classic forum troll.
creative player with high iq right in the meta.
99 iq maybe ?

These posts are rarely ever genuine. People don't stick it to GGG when they don't use these tools in my opinion. They're just ridding themselves of a nice, intricate tool made by community members' hard work and passion, because things like PoENinja, build guides, Timeless Jewel calculator, even maybe PoB, will never be made by GGG themselves. These lay a lot of the stuff about the game bare, and GGG will always want to preserve the "mystery" while staying mum about community-made tools that do.

Besides for things like this league's Totem build, the discovery came from within the game with PoB updating support for it later. Crucible modifiers also weren't supported by PoB for a week-ish? Omly PoEDB had them listed.

"

MrWonderful99 wrote:

"

konga70 wrote:

Yeah people are stupid bro.
They will always just copy whatever the youtuber tells them to do.

You can easily just pick up this game and use your brain and get to level 95 and finish ur atlas with nothing but pob.

I have also never used any 3rd party tool besides PoB, unless you count the trade macro.

The passive tree was in the old playstation 1 ff games, if people cant grasp it by now then they are lost, but most people are. The average IQ in the US is 98 lol.

Just play video games to have fun and entertain yourself. Don't be a metaslave, you wont learn anything and you will have less fun.

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I don't believe for a second that you are a legitimate POE player and have never used the chromatic calculator or Craft of Exile to calculate the most efficient way to craft or to easily get all the possible affix %? Or a filter, or Awakened POE trade, or POE Ninja to see prices and builds..etc. Come on man...

Deficient state of resources is necessary to grow/harvest rewards (efficient, lucky, happy, sad, greed, dominance, supremacy or w/e) through exploration and challenges.

If you really don't get this part "Just play video games to have fun and entertain yourself", you just can skip the comment like we hide the clutters using drop filters. (if you think this comment makes no sense or irrelevant, welcome to the thread. let's just have fun discussion.)

I think it just boils down to different types of enjoyment and targets.

For POE, I am like OP, and I don't even use POB in a practical way. I only use it to see my DPS, or to see which gem combinations result in better DPS. (You know many support gems don't show up in tooltip) Everything else is too complicated and I don't want to bother.

Actually, for many various games, I rarely use guides or other things. If it is not included with the game, I don't bother. If the game is unenjoyable due to relying on other stuff, that game isn't for me. Luckily I am enjoying POE without using 3rd party sites and tools. I am happy with what I have, even if I know nothing about crafting.

If the game gets me stuck and puzzled for a long time, and I actually need to look for help from other guides, that is a shitty game and I will simply dump it.

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However, I do enjoy reading guides. I enjoy reading the guides back when Pokemon Yellow was out. I would read how to beat the bosses, what to catch etc when I don't even own any gaming consoles.

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Although it seems like POE has a huge bunch of perfectionists and guide users. I don't think it represents the majority of the population.

Gotta keep in mind that, the ones that visit the forum or reddit to read posts is already in the minority, and the ones bothering to make a post is even less. Therefore the forums/reddit will be filled with "perfectionists" because they are usually the one who care enough to post. The vast amount of casual gamers are not even bothering.

I would believe that POE attracts more patient and hardcore players due to its nature; but I refuse to believe that there are still a great bunch of players just running around blindly, grasping clues by themselves and still enjoying the game.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Right now only 16% of all players get to the point of running a single T1 map? 1% kill a non-uber boss? That's brutally bad, no matter how someone wants to spin it.

Right now? Are there time stamps on the achievement page?

PoE is a F2P game that has existed for 10 years. It goes without saying that a F2P game spending 10+ years in the spotlight (somewhat) gathers a lot of "tryers", as the investment needed to try the game is only a 'small' download.

And as I've told you before, something you seemed to just brush away as nonsense; a lot of players are quite happy playing only the story mode, over and over, using all different sort of crazy build. That's where the fun is for lots of players, because during the story mode, everything is viable/doable, within reasons of course. Have most of these players tried a map? Most likely, but not necessarily a non-uber boss. Continuous grinding, no matter the game, isn't everyone's cup of tea - and that's what an endgame is - in most games that have an endgame. And that's quite normal: Someone plays Skyrim, Cyberpunk or other RPGs for the main story, and while there's no real endgame in those games, there are tons of side content - ignored by many.

But the main reason for those numbers? Niche, hardcore game + F2P. Not necessarily many games of that combination out there, as F2P games tend to be games with a rather "inclusive" difficulty.

"

Phrazz wrote:

Right now? Are there time stamps on the achievement page?

Right now, as in, if I click on the button right now. What sort of reply is that?

And quite frankly I don't care "what you told me before", and that sounds incredibly condescending btw. You speak for yourself, and I speak for myself.

The data is the data. You often speak on feelings and anecdotes, where as I'm far more analytical and prefer to cite things. Not that one or the other is more "right" as I cannot tell someone how to feel regardless of evidence I present. That's the nature of gaming and entertainment overall. Different strokes for different folks.

You just throw out things like "a lot of players only like the story mode" Really? How many? Did you just make that up versus that's what you think? I don't know what to do with that statement, at all.

That's said I still stand by the notion that 84% of people playing PoE never getting to maps as a poor indicator of progression and onboarding. It's just a single data point though, I'm happy to review other ones if you have some. If it's soley an emotional discussion on how you feel about the game, and projecting that into others, I don't think we can make much headway there discussion wise.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

The data is the data. You often speak on feelings and anecdotes, where as I'm far more analytical and prefer to cite things.

Nah, I also speak about experiences in-game and from the game community, while you often speak numbers, which you interpret as you see fit, just like you did just now. When those numbers actually indirectly back up (parts of) my experiences from in and around the game, you "don't care", which I guess is quite alright. You even used the word "notion", which in my head speak towards your feelings/beliefs.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

Right now? Are there time stamps on the achievement page?

Right now, as in, if I click on the button right now. What sort of reply is that?

And quite frankly I don't care "what you told me before", and that sounds incredibly condescending btw. You speak for yourself, and I speak for myself.

The data is the data. You often speak on feelings and anecdotes, where as I'm far more analytical and prefer to cite things. Not that one or the other is more "right" as I cannot tell someone how to feel regardless of evidence I present. That's the nature of gaming and entertainment overall. Different strokes for different folks.

You just throw out things like "a lot of players only like the story mode" Really? How many? Did you just make that up versus that's what you think? I don't know what to do with that statement, at all.

That's said I still stand by the notion that 84% of people playing PoE never getting to maps as a poor indicator of progression and onboarding. It's just a single data point though, I'm happy to review other ones if you have some. If it's soley an emotional discussion on how you feel about the game, and projecting that into others, I don't think we can make much headway there discussion wise.

The achievements page just shows the % of literally all players who have ever tried the game on steam.
So it looks at people who stopped playing well before Maven was put to the game and just states "these players didn't kill Maven" and thus making the % look lower.

But ofc you don't care about such things

"

imanubcake wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

Right now? Are there time stamps on the achievement page?

Right now, as in, if I click on the button right now. What sort of reply is that?

And quite frankly I don't care "what you told me before", and that sounds incredibly condescending btw. You speak for yourself, and I speak for myself.

The data is the data. You often speak on feelings and anecdotes, where as I'm far more analytical and prefer to cite things. Not that one or the other is more "right" as I cannot tell someone how to feel regardless of evidence I present. That's the nature of gaming and entertainment overall. Different strokes for different folks.

You just throw out things like "a lot of players only like the story mode" Really? How many? Did you just make that up versus that's what you think? I don't know what to do with that statement, at all.

That's said I still stand by the notion that 84% of people playing PoE never getting to maps as a poor indicator of progression and onboarding. It's just a single data point though, I'm happy to review other ones if you have some. If it's soley an emotional discussion on how you feel about the game, and projecting that into others, I don't think we can make much headway there discussion wise.

The achievements page just shows the % of literally all players who have ever tried the game on steam.
So it looks at people who stopped playing well before Maven was put to the game and just states "these players didn't kill Maven" and thus making the % look lower.

But ofc you don't care about such things

It's doesn't make anything look like anything. It's raw data. If someone quit and didn't get to maps or kill Maven, that's not a legit data point? I cant even sometimes here...

It would be more fair to compare only players who actually have played since Maven came to the game
Instead of literally everyone who has ever launched the game through steam.
That's what I'm getting at.

Let's make a comparison. You've a game you completed 100% of it.
Then 6 years later they put out a dlc that increases achievements and you don't play it anymore.
The new achievements will look worse because there could've been like 100k players who played it earlier but only 10k played the dlc and got any of the achievements there.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

The data is the data. You often speak on feelings and anecdotes, where as I'm far more analytical and prefer to cite things.

Nah, I also speak about experiences in-game and from the game community, while you often speak numbers, which you interpret as you see fit, just like you did just now. When those numbers actually indirectly back up (parts of) my experiences from in and around the game, you "don't care", which I guess is quite alright. You even used the word "notion", which in my head speak towards your feelings/beliefs.

When I said "I don't care" it was in response to being admonished for having been "told" already. Like I'm not getting a lecture from another adult on the PoE forums lol.

And the dichotomy here of data vs emotion is a difficult area for me personally. The "notion" that evidence or data can be tossed out or made irrelevant, because of how someone feels, it's again, a difficult hurdle for me to make. The living "my truth" overriding reality situations in today's culture...well, I just don't see it that way.

If 99 people say their experience is "x" and one person says it's "y", and then proceeds to invalidate all other 99 people with whatever explanation, it often rings hollow with me. I'll admit to that.