The XP Penalty is the worst thing in Path of Exile, remove it !!!

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Echothesis wrote:

This would also have side benefit of "resetting Standard itemization". I have friends who would prefer playing Standard over league cycle of "play all acts again", but do not play it because of economy being long-corrupted by legacy gear, RMT mirror shops, and brilliant GGG moves like div-ex swap. If new longstanding league would appear, and won't be another kind of "ruthless", it can attract new players too.

I don't know if you know the history of 'Standard', but it's original nickname was 'The Dump League'. The reason for that was that it was the place where items/currency/characters were 'dumped' at the end of a temp league. The only reason it existed in the first place was to avoid complaint that people lost everything at the end of a temp league.

GGG keeps it minimally playable, but there is no way they can make it have a viable economy given the amount of stuff being dumped there at league end. Legacy items is another matter making it impossible, since removing those would be directly against the purpose of it, that players kept their stuff.

For all intents and purpose, the game is the temp leagues...

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Cyzax wrote:

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raics wrote:

1. Unpredictable deaths out of nowhere make it unnerving

Is there really such a thing as 'unpredictable deaths'?

Most (all?) deaths comes from three things:
1. Playing content your build can't handle
2. Playing content your playing skills can't handle
3. Playing content you haven't taken time to learn the mechanics of
(most often combined)

For all of them however it is entirely predictable that it'll end in deaths... and every single death in the game I've experienced have been caused by them, and I've been the person making the decision to do it anyway.

I'm not including networking/server problems... while they are unpredictable, they're not part of the game as such.

Their words, not mine, check page 2. But that complaint has some gray area, so let's assume that it's valid-ish for the sake of argument.

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Cyzax wrote:

Is there really such a thing as 'unpredictable deaths'?

Most (all?) deaths comes from three things:
1. Playing content your build can't handle
2. Playing content your playing skills can't handle
3. Playing content you haven't taken time to learn the mechanics of
(most often combined)

For all of them however it is entirely predictable that it'll end in deaths... and every single death in the game I've experienced have been caused by them, and I've been the person making the decision to do it anyway.
I could not predict which encounter would cause the deaths, but it was entirely predictable that they happened.

I'm not including networking/server problems... while they are unpredictable, they're not part of the game as such.

The thing with 1. is that you never really know if you will run into content your build can't handle beforehand. The moment you use altars, league mechanics or have map mods you are prone to having massive difficulty spikes show up every now and then turning a situation from playing lawnmower to crashing into a brick wall. Even if you run maps white you can rip to some revenant blowing up a high life rare below you or you hitting that one blue strong box in 1000 that has corpse explosion mod and you don't notice or or or...

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Echothesis wrote:

80-95 is fine, although still silly frustrating, as if I've come here to play, not to work. 96-100 is where problems begin. And people take risks not because they are dumb, but because there is no other way to get notable loot. Unless you abuse party MF culler thing, you have to get yourself killed to farm loot.

There is no problem with taking risks to get more loot but taking more risks should have consequences right? Otherwise it's not a risk. The consequence here is dying more often making it harder to level. Imo that's how it should be. Your complaint looks to me more like a complaint about POEs shitty loot and not so much about XP penalty.

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Cyzax wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

This would also have side benefit of "resetting Standard itemization". I have friends who would prefer playing Standard over league cycle of "play all acts again", but do not play it because of economy being long-corrupted by legacy gear, RMT mirror shops, and brilliant GGG moves like div-ex swap. If new longstanding league would appear, and won't be another kind of "ruthless", it can attract new players too.

I don't know if you know the history of 'Standard', but it's original nickname was 'The Dump League'. The reason for that was that it was the place where items/currency/characters were 'dumped' at the end of a temp league. The only reason it existed in the first place was to avoid complaint that people lost everything at the end of a temp league.

GGG keeps it minimally playable, but there is no way they can make it have a viable economy given the amount of stuff being dumped there at league end. Legacy items is another matter making it impossible, since removing those would be directly against the purpose of it, that players kept their stuff.

For all intents and purpose, the game is the temp leagues...

Yes, I am aware of that, and you are likely aware of the reasons GGG wants us to only play temp leagues. And these reasons are morally questionable. Between 2 options:

- You wish to try another build, so wait for them to declare new league, make new character, go through all acts again, grind all basic resources again, even if you've just received another nerf to the face and your favorite league starter build is struggling, and then you are ready to actually try what you've wanted.

- You wish to try another build, so open your least used character, respec it, put on stuff from your vast stash, buy a few leftover things and you are ready to try what you've wanted.

...my personal choice is second. Others may like first more, their right. But the fact that GGG keeps inventing new things to keep people in temp leagues, from Kirac's vault to new challenge MTX rewards to various events with prizes like RTX 4090, may prove that I am not the only one in my opinion.

Which is why starting another standard league as "clean slate", but which won't be closed in 3 months, might well be in some demand among the playerbase. And they could also finally update exp penalty in there, to bring it up to realities of current balance :)

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Baharoth15 wrote:

There is no problem with taking risks to get more loot but taking more risks should have consequences right? Otherwise it's not a risk. The consequence here is dying more often making it harder to level. Imo that's how it should be. Your complaint looks to me more like a complaint about POEs shitty loot and not so much about XP penalty.

Correct, improving loot would have been another solution to people leaving after losing half of exp level in 2 min. Because that would have meant less need to overjuice your map into something completely uncontrollable, like derilium + conqueror + beyond + breaches + 32 red beasts + a few essence pillars + strongboxes + shrines + eldritch altars. And maybe blight and legion on top.

But this solution will be exploited by no-lifers who already abuse the shit of the current system with MF-capable builds based on their extensive knowledge in crafting and stacking defenses.

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Echothesis wrote:

But this solution will be exploited by no-lifers who already abuse the shit of the current system with MF-capable builds based on their extensive knowledge in crafting and stacking defenses.

Can't really think of a good reason why shouldn't knowledge, skill or whatever be rewarded. Sure, some might say it's useless knowledge but that guy who walked away with 10 grand from gauntlet might disagree, that's a LOT of cheetos and mountain dew.

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raics wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

But this solution will be exploited by no-lifers who already abuse the shit of the current system with MF-capable builds based on their extensive knowledge in crafting and stacking defenses.

Can't really think of a good reason why shouldn't knowledge, skill or whatever be rewarded. Sure, some might say it's useless knowledge but that guy who walked away with 10 grand from gauntlet might disagree, that's a LOT of cheetos and mountain dew.

In general I agree, but like most things in PoE, this concept is taken too far in here. To have that kind of rewards, you have to actively engage in crafting, dumping dozens of divines on 1 item, and studying affix weight pools like real science. Even among people who've played number of arpg games starting with D2, this is a whole other level of commitment. You cannot expect everyone digging poe crafting system with same fervor.

This results in way too much item economy power being concentrated in the hands of too few people, who've breached that wall already. And then they actively interfere in how other people play, be it in temp or standard league, by fixing prices on chase items. Meaning, for other players, any knowledge less than total knowledge won't bring rewards at all, since GGG had already tuned lootrates around their favorite elite (see 3.19 changes). if you cannot use MF, you are screwed, you couldn't even buy good items as they already cost an arm and a leg.

Solution to that may be making crafting easier and less costly to learn (compared to slamming workbench metacrafts). Stop hammering Harvest, return more powerful crafts to harvest pool, and limit its exploit potential in other way, like make advanced harvest crafts cost exponentially more when applied on the same item multiple times. Instead of mentioning "non-influenced" everywhere, make Harvest its own type of influence. Increase Sacred Blossom drop chance, as this is becoming ridiculous. Mere crafting reagent is rarer than some items themselves, even though it merely gives 1 shallow chance to craft something.

Example: Harvest crafing an item now adds Harvest influence and stores "lifeforce multiplier" value on item. Each subsequent harvest craft on this item increases that multiplier, depending on original cost of the craft. Meaning, trying "reforge keep prefix/suffix" would raise multiplier a lot more than spamming cheap reroll all crafts.

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Echothesis wrote:

Answers like that are hardly constructive, no? Maybe you are the guy who knows at level 1, what items you'll be wearing in each slot at 100, and how exactly to get each of those items. I don't use POB and my characters are hardly optimized even by the time of 100. And it is actually fine to not know what idea of an upgrade you could stumble on next, rather than playing by railways, when all your total stats are already laid out for you.

So there is still room for improvement for me at 100, trying to get chase items, and it feels better at 100, than with "strategic" pacing and that penalty hanging over my neck. Hope I won't need to repeat again, why exactly is exp penalty does not contribute to the game anything else than constant frustration, it was all in this thread.

If I still don't understand you, feel free to elaborate. If you don't want that, at least spare me from entitled posts like above, please.

Telling you that you didn't understand my post is "entitled"? Ok ... weird use of that word.

Since you still didn't understand what I wrote, I can try to explain it: my comment has a context you ignored. It is related to a comment saying a game without XP penatly would be "lame" (raics used other words, but I hope you get the gist). I responded with saying the same applies to characters being level 100, they also have no XP penalty.
It is obvious that level 100 char exists and that players still play them, so their claim the game would then be "lame" is obviously absurd.

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LimeKoala wrote:

Telling you that you didn't understand my post is "entitled"? Ok ... weird use of that word.

Since you still didn't understand what I wrote, I can try to explain it: my comment has a context you ignored. It is related to a comment saying a game without XP penatly would be "lame" (raics used other words, but I hope you get the gist). I responded with saying the same applies to characters being level 100, they also have no XP penalty.
It is obvious that level 100 char exists and that players still play them, so their claim the game would then be "lame" is obviously absurd.

Okay, I got it now, lol. And already commented about that when saying majority of players won't just blindly-stupidly run and die 5 times on purpose, like defenders of the exp penalty like to imply. And for those who will, dynamic penalty can be added, triggering only on several deaths in quick succession. While dying once in 50 juiced T16 maps with 5+ types of extra content should not be so heavily penalized, it is not the player's fault that GGG cannot be bothered to smooth max damage spikes and modifier stat stacking.

Also, this context is less applicable to level 100 characters. Those who stayed in poe that long are bound to learn at least something about how to survive in this mess. Chaotic weirdos who enjoy trowing their corpses at mobs would've left long before endgame.

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Echothesis wrote:

GGG cannot be bothered to smooth max damage spikes and modifier stat stacking

It could also be the case that they actually can't do that even if they tried. There are many factors in the damage calculation and they might not be able to actually get to a point where the results are actually fair and not just "too much" or "too less" (dealt by monsters).

But I also have a sentence from Chris (??) in the back of my mind where he said that players should expect to die in the game from time to time. So that users can try and cope with it, or try to reduce the frequency, but still have to expect that it will happen eventually. But I can't recall who exactly said that and when.